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Hello,

I wrote this for my website, and because I post on many gun sites, I'm trying out posting by picture. Lets me manage from a central hub, and keeps me from having to reformat from HTML to BB code.

 

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Josh,

My Mosin-Nagant is a Finn M-39. Much more refined with Finnish attention to detail.

The standard M-N's are great guns. Ugly, but built stout in a very good caliber. Can't wait for summer to kick in and I can see how mine reacts to a match load of Sierra Match Kings!

Enjoy!

Wes
 

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Here are a couple of 100 yard targets with bench rest groups I fired with a couple of prewar Mosin hex receiver 91/30's. In my several years of dinking around with them I never found a Mosin with a decent barrel that wouldn't group sub 2MOA from the bench with surplus ammo. Sometimes one may need to make a metal shim to place underneath the rear tang where old wood and too much torque on the rear action screw has caused the tang to sink in too far, but other than that they shoot well.

In the 5 years I've been in charge of our club's military matches I've only seen a couple of Mosins in competition and I'm sure it's because of their primitive trigger that you can't do a whole lot with as far as improving the pull. They almost never wind up in the winner's circle. However, stock Mosin's are usually regarded as being more accurate out of the box than a 98 Mauser in like condition, and I've found this to be true in my experience with both guns.

Wes, only shooting will prove whether or not the .308 diameter Sierra's will shoot well. Sometimes the bore diameter on these guns is .310 and other times it's anybody's guess - european military rifles are famous for inconsistent bore diameters. A friend had some 170 grain .30-30 bullets laying around and they made a very good 100 yard load for his gun, so I know .308 bullets will work at least part of the time. Anyway, here are the two groups I mentioned. They were fired with 147 grain Czech light ball corrosive surplus ammo. The top group measured 1 3/4 and the bottom one 1 7/8 even with the flyer.



Here is one of the guns involved. I had to have eye surgery in '08 that ended my career with heavy recoiling shoulder guns, so this one and all the other vintage military rifles in my safe were sold. But I sure loved them. This one is a 1935 hex receiver that I refinished.





They're a barrel of fun. Enjoy them.

Jer
 

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Very nice, Jer! Is it refinished?

Setting it on the deck rail like that gives me the willies though, I'll have to admit!

Josh
 

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Yes it's refinished, Josh. My pals and I used an alcohol based cordovan colored leather dye to get the deep red color into it, then followed that the following day with three coats of Deft wood finish, which is a clear laquer. We found we got a better finish by using glossy and toning it down with 0000 steel wool. Here's another one:







This one had a beautiful blond stock that resembled a piece of maple, so I killed off a little of the blond color with some pine colored Minwax and then used the Deft on it. This one was my sweetheart Mosin of them all.

Yeah, using the rail had its risks, but the contrast the woods provided through the different seasons really made it a wonderful photo stand.

Lotsa deer and wild turkey down there. ;)

Jer
 

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I hear you, Jer; no turkey out back that I've seen yet, but always deer; enough that I don't shoot in the early morning or twilight hours for fear of taking one out-of-season!

You have some nice Mosins.

I thought enough of your first post to steal it, and post it here: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4607878

I quoted it. If this is not OK, please let me know and I'll take it down. Seems I started a bit of a rumble, and I needed some targets to back up my assertions. My attempts thus far are poor compared to your results!

Thanks!

Josh
 

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I'm flattered, Josh. Thank you.

Jer
 

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JayPee, excellent refinish work on those rifles. I had an M-44 that got me hooked on surplus rifles. A lot of fun to shoot, but a real bruiser on the shoulder and the muzzle blast was entertaining yo say the least.. One afternoon I was at the range with a friend who had been Army Special Forces during the Vietnam era. The man was no paintywaist but when I offered the Mosin he replied, "Uh, no thanks."

Cool stuff.
 

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Yep, me and Mister Pachmayr's slip on recoil pads became very good friends during my vintage military rifle days, especially when it came to the M44!

JayPee
 

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I use one I found on eBay for like $7. It replaces the stock recoil plate and adds about 1" of length of pull. I picked the one that was hard rubber as I don't really like mushy recoil pads. It doesn't absorb much recoil, but felt recoil is diminished due to proper fit.

Josh
 

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Thanks Josh. Mosins do have potential. Or at least some do. I've got two M39s, like Wes, and also a parcel of the ex-Soviet rifles too. I think the stock bedding issues, the ammo preferences, and the lousy sights do detract from their potential. Marksmanship is a difficult skill, and it takes lots of dedicated practice.

Back in 1943, the U.S. Infantry Journal published _How to Shoot the US Army Rifle_ on sling-supported positions, checking windage, etc. etc. To boost confidence they had a page that read:

"YOUR RIFLE IS BETTER THAN THE ENEMY'S

M1 Rifle -- Semi-automatic--8-shot clip--.30 Cal.-- Adjustable sights

Arisaka--Bolt action--5-shot clip--.256 cal.--nonadjustable sights

Karabiner 98--Bolt action--5-shot clip--.31 cal.--nonadjustable sights"

Had the publication been updated for Korea, it might well have said:

Mosin-Nagant--Bolt action--5-shot clip--.31 cal.--nonadjustable sights too...

I'd venture to say that the Mosin-Nagant may just be the single worst bolt-action rifle design used in WWII... Maybe rivaling the much-maligned Italian Carcano 6.5mm. That said, most WWI and WWII-era rifle-designs were serviceable and reasonably well-thought out. The Mosin is very rugged, reliable, simple, and straightforward to use. The 7.62x54r caliber is hell-for-stout, and the rifle is capable of good accuracy. But the sights are a major detractor, certainly. I enjoy shooting mine, and at some point when I can get into reloading, I'll be sure to wring some good groups out of it. They are good to practice marksmanship with as long as one is not put off by the nineteenth-century ergonomics and idiosyncrasies.

Thanks for the great pics!
 

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Boy you sure nailed that one, Dave. I couldn't agree more. The Army published an evaluation of the 91/30 in the early 50's and reached about the same conclusions you did, adding that the rifle had a vastly overly-complicated bolt design. Anyone who has ever torn one down will agree with that one too. Best.

JayPee
 

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I'd venture to say that the Mosin-Nagant may just be the single worst bolt-action rifle design used in WWII... Maybe rivaling the much-maligned Italian Carcano 6.5mm. That said, most WWI and WWII-era rifle-designs were serviceable and reasonably well-thought out. The Mosin is very rugged, reliable, simple, and straightforward to use. The 7.62x54r caliber is hell-for-stout, and the rifle is capable of good accuracy. But the sights are a major detractor, certainly. I enjoy shooting mine, and at some point when I can get into reloading, I'll be sure to wring some good groups out of it. They are good to practice marksmanship with as long as one is not put off by the nineteenth-century ergonomics and idiosyncrasies.
Humm....Not too sure that the Finnish Army would agree with you on this Dave. The Red Army left them a pile that they converted from a rough tool to a fair precision rifle most suitable for very, very cold weather. The previous operators having no further use of them. The M-N is a uniquely Russian (as opposed to Soviet) rifle designed for the defense of the Motherland with all of its climatic issues. Please note that the Polar Bears (32nd US Infantry ? - don't hold me to that, I have enough issue remembering my own branches regiments) was armed with M-Ns in 1919 in our involvement in Russia. US made as I recall. I have found that the 762 Russian (as opposed to the 762 Soviet) is capable of excellent accuracy when fitted to a given rifle. Most of the time the issue is the sighting system. Make no mistake about it, this gun was designed to be operated with thick gloves. GEN Winter was generally the Russians best defense.

And, the 6.5 Carcano in the hands of a trained marksman can also perform better than I wish it had. Most of its issues were a result of the nut behind the trigger. Well maybe the nut behind the nuts. Most of Rommel's Africa Corps was Italian.

However, like the Japanese Arisaka, the Russians thought the rifle primarily a vehicle for the bayonet. Heck, the Russians and later the Soviets did not even have a sheath for that pig sticker!
 

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My son purchased a new-in-wrapper M44. Well, supposedly new or at least newly rehab'ed and stored for years, don't know which. It is the first Mosin Nagant I've had anything to do with.

Sure it's accurate. This one is good for 2 1/2-inch 5 shot groups from the bench rest at 100 yards with the right ammo. Would be fun to handload for it.

A Mosin Nagant wouldn't do a thing that any of several other military battle rifles kept around here could do but I've been tempted to pick one up for some time for additional rifle play. Ought to get it done while they are easily obtained.
 

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The Polish M44 was one of the nicest military guns I've ever seen....made almost to commercial standards with beautiful wood and first rate blue job.

JP
 

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Just check the crown at the muzzle when you buy it with a unfired bullet inserted to make sure you have a tight bore. I have had dozens both Finn captures and snipers. My best shooter is a 1942 91-30 with like new bore and best of all it was $79. I don,t like the carbines muzzle blast or accuracy problems.
 

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I just shot my re-snipered PU today. One 3 shot group was between 3/4"-1/2". I was in shock and almost decided to give up shooting on the spot thinking I can never do that again. But then I actually beat that...but using my buddy's new Tikka T3. Point being...yes, those old Mosins can be damn accurate.

PS-I was using Prvi 182 grain in the PU, it really loves it.
 

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Hi Jonny, thanks for that. I'm always looking for the most accurate loads.

Does the barrel have wrapping of any sort, or is it floated at all?

Thanks,

Josh
 

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No wrapping, and I've never looked too closely to see if the barrel is clear all the way down. I've had it out of the wood, but put it back just as she came.
 

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Josh,

My Mosin-Nagant is a Finn M-39. Much more refined with Finnish attention to detail.

The standard M-N's are great guns. Ugly, but built stout in a very good caliber. Can't wait for summer to kick in and I can see how mine reacts to a match load of Sierra Match Kings!

Enjoy!

Wes

My Mosin-Nagant is a Finn M-39.
4223



4224



4225
4226
 
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