[remo]

Can anyone tell me the good, bad and the ugly of the Win USA personal protection 9mm in 115 and 147gr JHP? I had read on other forms that the bullets are the silvertip type but dont have the silver coating on them. I am short on funds and can get the the USA 115 and 147 gr JHP for under $90 a case. This will allow me practice with the same type of ammo I would carry. This till I can get more funds.

 

[Josh Smith]

Sir,

Try THIS THREAD. Holler if it doesn't answer your questions.

I would carry the stuff but only as a last resort. The recoil impulse of the 115gr ball WWB and the Federal Hi-Shok (C9BP) are very close according to my hands and, IMO, you'd be better served with the C9BP for carry.

Please just remember that placement is key, secondary to what you do end up carrying.

Josh <><

 

[jonnyc]

I've heard good things about both. I just wish they'd include a 124 grain.

 

[Guest]

My partner tried the 9mm 115gr JHP Win yesterday at the range in his S&W semiauto. It was all over the place. Horrible. His Ruger P90 in .45 ACP loved the Win. ball though. My Taurus Model 80 .38 4" took his S&W 9mm to the cleaners on both the 7yd and 25yd range. With the .45 Ruger he was back on his game, however.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. The USA JHP is the Silvertip JHP w/o the electroless nickle coating. This standard velocity round averages 1161 ft/sec when fired from my Browning Hi Power w/factory barrel with an extreme spread of 44 ft/sec and a standard deviation of 18 ft/sec.

The Winchester USA 115-gr. JHP expanded fairly consistently for me in either water or in super-saturated newsprint. From the latter, penetration was 6.5 to 7" with expanded bullets averaging recovered diameters of 0.64" x 0.61" x 0.31" tall. Retained weight was usually from about 100 to 112 grains.

This load shot well from the Hi Power and has shot well from two CZ-75 pistols, but as you've noted this can depend upon the particular pistol.

I am personally aware of one shooting with the Silvertip version of the load. A felon was shot twice by an officer under my command for "merely" pointing a revolver at the officer! The first shot was not a good one and hit the offender in the arm. The second one was a low torso hit that was not centered. The bad guy dropped but was not killed. This was an unobstructed frontal shooting. The recovered bullets expanded nicely and resemble those shown in the photograph above.

Best.

 

[werewolf]

Mr Camp,

Thanks for the nice pix on the WIn USA JHP 9mm in 115 gr. You are the fourth person on the 'net who has posted pics of what looks to be a pretty good round - for the price. Its whats in my G19.

For what it costs - you can shoot ALOT of it, at the threshold to determining whether its ok for your pistol (my Glock 19 likes it) and for gaining proficiency with it.

I really think this round is a real sleeper based on price in that weight (Ammolab tested the 147 gr in gelatin and got similiar expansion results).

Other posters who tested it in "wetpacks" got almost identical penetration (7 " - which is what? 11" in gelatin?) and expansion.

I think Goldenloki's site also tested this round in geleatin and got reasonable results.

 

[Guest]

Xminor, a member of Glocktalk, has tested both the 115 and 147 grain WWB JHPs, and both work pretty well. He tested them in milk jugs full of water.

IIRC, the 115 grainer only penitrated into two milk jugs, expanding to a little over .65. The 147 grainer was recovered in the fourth jug, and had expanded to over .60.

If I couldnt get Ranger T or Gold Dot, this would be my choice. In fact, the 147 grain load is what I plan on using in my 33 round magazines that I am ordering.

 

[Guest]

Here are the threads that I was refering to.

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=333509

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=326588

Both were tested through 4 layers of denim and both performed very well IMO.

Take care.

 

[lelandray]

"A felon was shot twice by an officer under my command for "merely" pointing a revolver at the officer!"

Sounds like somebody got some bad press out of the deal. ??? I trust the officer didn't suffer any consequences from the FPO? (Felon Protection Office)

I saw that ammo on sale Monday at a shop I frequent but didn't realize its pedigree.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. No, the officer had no problems from anyone because of this righteous shooting.

Best.

 

[lelandray]

Hi, Stephen.

The last police shooting in this area was a total farce of the dangerous kind.

Guy robs convenience store and a cop happened to be on scene. To make a long story short, other cops arrived, and the robber tried to shoot the officers. Three of them returned fire and hit the BG a total of four times, though none of those hits in and of itself would have been instantly incapacitating. In total, however, they were good enough to get him into custody. The officers fired over TWENTY rounds and ended up with less than 20% hits. The store windows, doors, and walls were hit, as was the window of an apartment three blocks away.

The bad guy was out of the hospital and into jail within five days. I don't think bad ammo was to blame, nor was bad training. I do think adrenaline had a lot to do with the poor marksmanship, but I believe that other, strictly psychological factors were more relevant.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. I agree. At an armed robber's "final stand" numerous rounds were fired by one of my officers, another officer, and 2 state troopers. None hit the bad guy. What stopped the fight was an officer flanking him and using a shotgun well. Oops! We're drifting away from the original topic!

Best.

 

[lelandray]

I sure am glad someone explained what that little post is for in the Hydra Shoks. I was thinking along the same lines, but it's nice to have one's opinions validated.

As I've posted in another thread, I've gone to heavier bullet loads in my 9mm weapons, but I won't go the 147 route. I've read too much about the rounds to be confident in the ability of the heavier rounds to penetrate and expand. If I were using a supperssor I might load up with the heavy bullets, however, just to see if I could produce some extra recoil energy without increasing velocity.

I normally keep a box of Silvertips on hand in the 115 loading, but that ammo is in my long term storage collection. I'm carrying the same 125 Cor Bon loads in both the Beretta work gun and the BHP CCW gun. My extra magazines are filled with the 124 Hydra Shok standard pressure stuff.