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Discussion Starter #1
I was reloading some ACP ammo a few minutes ago, and my press jammed on a case during the priming stage. I removed the case, expecting to find either a military crimp or a primer that hadn't come out fully.

Instead, what I got was a regular .45 ACP case with the headstamp "WIN NT" and a SMALL primer pocket.

It seems I read something a while back about ACP cases using small primers, but the only ones I've ever seen were old foreign military rounds. I can't remember if the new GAP round uses a small or large primer, but this one isn't a GAP.
 

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LR - I am not sure but I think that means Winchester NonToxic. As I recall, that was an attempt at some perceived environmental problem about primers. Did not we have a world wide primer shortage in the 1990s while the primer compounds were reformulated? I think the GAP uses a SPP but as I refuse to acknowledge its existence, I am not certain.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That makes sense, Oberst. Some friends of mine bought a quarter of a million primers back in the 90s because of a threatened shortage, and of course they're still working on them.

I only found one more case with that headstamp, so hopefully there won't be a whole lot of them in the mix, but I have half of a five-gallon bucket full of empty brass to fill, and that's BEFORE I start on the 4,000 Remington cases in the box next to the bucket. :)
 

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The .45 GAP case uses the .175" diameter small pistol primer. I bought a box of the Speer 200 gr Gold Dot .45 GAP rounds when it was first introduced. One round into my cartridge collection. One round to a fellow collector. The remaining 18 rounds were full moon clipped and shot up in my S&W M625-2. Performance seems to be about equal to the .45 ACP 200 gr Gold Dot as far as I could tell.

I have had the same problem with the Winchester .45 ACP cases with the small pistol primer pocket. When I find them, I just crush 'em with a pair of channel lock pliers and drop 'em in the trash bucket. I've got a large stash of .45 brass and I won't go to the trouble of sorting out the small pocket cases for handloading.


Roadster
 
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The NT's are mercury and lead free primers, all of them are small so all the NT loads have small primer pockets. I believe this is the same case with federal and remington. There is a market for this brass though. I would seperate and save them. then sell when you get a bunch. Competition people like me that shoot tons of 40 or 9 and carry and only occasionallly shoot a 45. Makes loading easier.
 

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There was also a .204" diameter primer that government arsenals used for .45ACP a long time ago. Unlikely you'd find any unless shooting up some old corrosive ammo.


Regards,

Pat
 

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Discussion Starter #8
UPDATE: After loading about 2,200 rounds of ACP, I have thrown away 20 to 30 of the NT cases. I'm sure I got them while picking up brass left behind by someone else. In fact, I'm pretty sure I know exactly when and where I got it, but it won't happen again. Mostly the stuff is just an inconvenience to slow down my loading. It's not caused any real problems.
 

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Leland, as you hve probably surmized, I seldom do anything the right way but, I am a fairly fastidious reloader. I use Lee progressives (cheap but effective crap - funny I don't follow the AK crowd?) in my own odd manner. First, while I will used pick up brass, I only use WIN, REMm FED brass. Everything else gets chucked. Then before I do wnything I knock the crud off with the vibe-polisher. Then I punch as size each case (I consider it therapy) as I sort them by head stamp. Next, I polish the stuffing out of them (cleanliness is next to Armyness) before adding them to the kittylitter container. When I am ready, I then draw them out, prime them and put them into the case loader. Sure it adds time but I am a state employee. They don't pay me much but they don't work me hard at all. I pretend to work and they pretend to pay me. It leaves more for them to steal. Anyway, I generally use reloads only for practice and reserve bulk whitebox (?green/yellow...) for matches. High performance ammo only gets tested, carefully stored and hoarded against hard times. I know it is wierd but there you have it.
 
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