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There is a lot of excitement on gun sites about the new SA XD 45acp. Everybody seems to want one since it holds 13 rounds in the magazine. As a civilian, I ask...why do I need 13 rounds? Will I have trouble explaining that if I have to go to court?

I compared the XD45 to traditional CCW handguns based on weight and using 5 rounds, which is what the std 38special holds, and got this comparison..

XD45acp with 13rds 30 oz + 9.8 oz = 39.8 oz

S&W Mod 37 5 rds 15 oz + 2.32 oz = 17.32 oz

Sig P232 with 5 rds 16.2 oz + 2.08 oz = 18.28 oz

Bersa 380 with 5 rds 23 oz + 2.08 oz = 25.08 oz

Kahr PM9 with 5 rds 14 oz + 2.08 oz = 16.08 oz

SA 1911 with 5 rds 36 oz + 3.78 oz = 39.78 oz

So the advantage is for those carrying a 45, same weight as a 1911, smaller size, more rounds. But for those of us that don't want to carry a heavy gun, I don't see what the excitement is about, except for LEO's and military. The Bersa is nice but also too heavy for me to carry.
Not included above are any light weight (scandium, titanium, or KelTec) guns as these would not fit in the above comparison. Also didn't include all favorite calibers, only the ones I use.
Your data may be different depending on what you use for cartridge weights.

og
 

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Hi OG,

True story.

Female cop, off duty and therefore an armed private citizen, was in a stop'n'rob when it got robbed by three guys.

They took her and the clerk, and IIRC, another customer into the back. When they got ready to execute them the off duty cop pulls her J-Frame from its hideout location. She fed BG1 two, BG2 two, BG3 1 then "click." BG#2 and BG#3 are not out of the fight and beat her senseless before running. Almost killed 'er.

'Round here and from what I gather, other places, baddies roam in backs like mangy dogs with crap drying on their haunches (can you tell I have very strong feelings against punks?). I don't feel I can count on just one or two baddies attacking me anymore.

At the local stop'n'rob a couple came in who were done up on crack. How do I know? They were braggin' about it. I had gone to school with the girl. I did my best to get out of the conversation and aquitted myself well, but I wouldn't have been comfortable with less than three apiece on these critters. Yeah, a K-Frame would have worked as I could have hit with at that distance with 100% accuracy (they were at powder burn distance). But what about three? Four? I've seen packs of ten of these fools runnin' around.

My parents moved us here when I was ten because they didn't want me growing up around that sort of thing. For the most part it worked. But it's permeating small towns now, everybody and their brothers thinking they're some sort of rapster/gangster full of hate and revenge, packin' heat, not knowing how to use it. A teacher of mine, who ended up shot dead at a later time by a nutcake on every type of drug you can imagine, was confronted by one of these dogs. The punk told him that his friend needed to take off the colors he was wearin' 'cause it's a rival "gang's" color's and proceeded to show my teacher a Loricin, Jennings, whatnot. One of those shiny .380acp's that last 50 rounds. Griffith (teacher) pulled back his own coat, grabbed his 1911, and asked the kid if he really wanted to swap lead. (In G's defense for not drawing, the kid didn't have his out either, and G knew how to call a bluff.)

Anyway... summarizing...

I feel too many situations these days require more ammo than the first 3/4 of the 20th century. I will therefore choose to carry as much ammo as possible, seven being the minimum mag capacity for any primary handgun, with said handgun having a minimum power of .380+P or 9x18.

Ten or more is even better, for me.

Then again, that's my perceived threat level. As always, YMMV. My grandfather, whom I'm going to go see here in a bit, kept a .25acp in his trailer for defense. I told him that wasn't a good caliber... so he reached under the bed and out came the apple of my eye, the 1897 Winchester!

I hope to inherit that thing... and being the first born son of his first born son, I stand a good chance!


I'm off topic and going into rant mode so I think I'll chill for now.

Have a good one,

Josh <><
 

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Discussion Starter #3
good points! If the terrorists start to attack my house though, I'm going to use my centerfire rifle first.
I do feel for the cities with tough gangs. The XD 45 out to be great for that.
og
 

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Well OG, it's a good question. I guess the real answer is...I can. All those years of the Clinton ban and not being able to get 15 round magazines just didn't make sense. If you can carry 13-rounds of .45 and you want to(I wouldn't carry a Springfield XD...but that's just me)...you should be able to.

Personally, I'm fine with a single-stack 1911. If I ever find a HP that I'm really comfortable with 13 rounds of 9mm will be just fine as well.

-Rob
 
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I have to agree with Josh that when possible, it's nice to have that level of firepower. In fact, I'm thinking more and more lately about getting a Glock 21, since they point well for me, and I've wanted a .45 for some time, now.
 

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I work in a little town about fifteen minutes from the even smaller town I live in. Last night when I stopped in my usual place to get my one cup of pre-work coffee, I identified no less than EIGHT gangbangers / wannabe gangbangers in the parking lot and inside the store. Post-Katrina there's been a population explosion in just about every town north of the line defined by the storm surge, and while most of those people are hardworking folks who just want to continue their lives, many are the dregs of the societies they left behind. (If you thought it was bad before, imagine a community one hour from New Orleans with a population on August 28th of 13,000 and a population of 35,000 on August 30th. That's the situation in one small Mississippi city.)

Okay, so if I don't take into account the fact that things might have become a bit more unstable, I'll answer "because that's how many rounds my gun holds." On the average trip to Wal Mart I don't worry too much about multiple attackers, but late at night in the parking lot of a shop and rob, yeah, I admit to some increased anxiety about convenience stores and such. I don't think the incidence of robberies has gone up appreciably since Katrina, but then I haven't really been counting, either. In the end up being most comfortable with what I can shoot the best, and it holds thirteen rounds.

A dozen or so years ago I drove up on an armed robbery in progress at a convenience store--it was that night when I decided to apply for a CCW. I figure that with the ongoing urban chaos caused by Katrina, I might as well assume that another such event is not completely outside the realm of possibility.

Oh, well. My coffee hasn't kicked in yet, so I'll quote Rob: "I guess the real answer is...I can."
 
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I carry 13+1 because there is no 14+1 .45 out there! But, seriously, the reasons given above are valid. That's why I carry forty rounds of .40 S&W, forty rounds of .45 ACP, or forty six rounds of 9mm when I go out. Perhaps being law enforcement makes me jaded, but there are too many punks out there who travel in packs, and you can't be sure the noise of a few shots will scare them off. Even bad guys wear body armor, and might be hopped up on meth or crack or just plain drunk. Also, you can't be sure the encounter will end within a few seconds. You have to plan for an extended firefight until backup arrives, if you even have the chance to call. You might have to shoot your way out of a jam, or fight your way to your car. Statistics show that most gunfights occur at less than 7 yards and are over with just a few rounds fired, but no one was ever killed by statistics; I won't bet my life on the averages!
 

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Hi there OG,

Here is my thinking in retrospect.

We have to go back to around 1995 in my case when the AWB was in full swing.

I was applying for my CWP and here was my logic at the time and still today. 7+1 .45 ACP, 10+1 9mm and 10+1 in .40 S&W. I chose the G-23 with 2/pre ban 13 round mags and even with the 10 still had some decent firepower on my hip for the event of "multiple assailant" threats.

Based on what was said earlier, shooters are still elated about the sunsetting of the AWB and are really "buzzed" about new high capacity products. But, those black days still linger in our collective minds and psyche.

I guess much of what I carry depends on where I am going and what I percieve to be my needs at the time. Road trip=High cap BHP/G-23. Trip to the grocery store=M 642 revolver. ;)

Chris
 

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Don't know anything about the 13-rd XD45 but Para Ordnance has had the 14.45 for years. In regards to OG's original post, I don't think magazine capacity would have any bearing if you had to go to court (as long as it was a factory mag and not some aftermarket 30 rounder or something). Good points in other posts regarding multiple assailants in today's society. I've been content with 6 rounds in my CCW piece...should start thinking about dressing around one of my full size hi caps.
 

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Gents,
I've always be happy with 7+1 in my 1911. Including two combat tours.
On the other hand having 13+ can be comforting.
Now adays I carry my 1911 with one spare mag and Surefire 6P. Think that's more than enough for Salem, Oregon.
My trip to the store/lightweight carry pistol is a G36...

If the situation warrants it I carry my BHP.

Wes
 

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When I first started CCW, I carried a gun and that was all. If it was a J-frame, I had 5 rounds. If it was a Hi-Power, I had 13+1. If it was a Beretta 96, 10+1 (didn't have my current 12 rd. mags then.) And so forth. Then I learned more about firearms, some from reading and a lot through experience. I learned that magazines can fail, so I started carrying a spare mag. I learned that I perform better at some times than at others, so I began to carry a speedloader or two when I packed a revolver. Then I realized that the gun itself might crap out on me I have had revolvers lock up too), so I began to carry a BUG. As I sit here, with some errands to tend to later this evening, I have 8+1 in my 1911, a spare 8 rd mag on my belt, and a KelTec P32 (7+1, plus a spare 7 rd mag) in my right front pocket. Let's see, that totals 32 rds. I don't anticipate having to fight off the Mongol horde or anything. I am more concerned about Murphy than I am about 10 attackers at once. (If there truly are that many, then I hope to do like Clint Smith always says, use the handgun to fight my way to the long gun, which is an M4 in the trunk with 4 spare mags.)

So, I understand a 13-rd .45 ACP. I like my 1911 and believe I will stick with it, but I understand the XD.

Lots of good comments here, I won't mention them all, just a general attaboy to everyone on a good topic.
 
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I've thought about this a little more.

Let's say that it was no less comfortable to carry a full-size Hi-cap than a pocket gun; Everyone would carry full-size hi-caps. There'd be no reason not to.

I think, in the end, it comes down to how much discomfort you are willing to sustain in order to reduce a perceived threat. The greater the perceived threat, the greater the discomfort. Keep in mind, though, that for various reasons, everyone has a different threshold for discomfort. That means that for some people, carrying something Gigantic, like a G-21 or a Hi-Capacity 1911, is in no way inconceivable for even relatively small perceived threats.

The man that carries two full-size autos and a BUG does so, at the very core, because he can stand to.
 
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From rulings of the SCUS that the job of the police is to protect society, whatever that is, and not the individual, you can not expect any help from the police during a gun fight. Therefore, as rule three of gunfightings states, "You will fight the gun fight with the ammo you have on hand, and can not expect any resupply", I will always find a way to carry more. I carry a HP with 13+1 and two additional 13 round mags in a double mag carrier. Over kill? I think not. Prudent behaviour? Yes. That is my 2 cents worth.
 
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The man that carries two full-size autos and a BUG does so, at the very core, because he can stand to.
THis may or may not be a silly question but, what is a "BUG"??
 

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gryphon,
welcome to this site. You will love it here. Kind, considerate people always willing to help each other.
og
 
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gryphon,
welcome to this site. You will love it here. Kind, considerate people always willing to help each other.
og
Well thank you OG. I've actually been lurking here since last April... I just don't post alot.

And thank you too Rob... I guess if I actually thought about it I should have been able to figure "BUG" out on my own... it just wasn't clicking...
 

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You need thirteen rounds, or as many rounds as you can carry, for the same reason that I fill up the gas tank on my airplane, every time, before I take off even on short flights.

A prudent person plans for the unexpected, not just for what they think is going to happen.

The old saying is still a lifesaver, "It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it." ;)
 
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Hello, as a fan of the XD series (my personal choice in a carry gun for personal protection) I am vested in the new XD45ACP. I've had quite a bit of rounds through it by now and I've already got visible holster wear on it.

I chose the XD45ACP because it's the gun I really wanted when I got the XD40 last year, haha!

But seriously, the XD suits me very well. I don't like having to manipulate a little switch or safety and I don't like traditional DA/SA autos. I like consistent trigger pulls. I cut my teeth on revolvers and still think that way. I dislike the Glock.

I've never bought a gun because of its capacity. It's true that I do demand a 5 round minimum for personal protection guns, but I don't get hung up on capacity at all. I see the capacity of the XD45ACP as a bonus, not the main draw.

I enjoy the XD series because it's rugged, in my price range, has a manual of arms I can understand, shoots accurately, runs like a top, and has marvelous aftermarket support. It borrows features from the 1911, Sig, and Glock pistols that I like and leaves the ones I don't like behind. I greatly enjoy the XD45ACP on its other merits alone. It could hold only 5+1 rounds and I'd still carry it.
 
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