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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all

Looks like I cracked again... Walthers are amoung my favorites - already owns 3 PPs (!), 1 PPK, 1 P38 and 1 P5. Now a PP Super in 9 x 18 Police is on the way, just waiting for the papers. NIB, with 2 mags, manual missing.



The PP Super was developped in 1973 as a replacement for various 7,65 pistols in use in Europe. Build around the 9 mm Police, a round derived from the WWII 9 Ultra, the new Walther offer was a blowback, slightly larger than the former PP, with decocker, external slide catch and mag button. Sadly it never caught, german polices adopting 9 para pistols of the P5, P6, P7 generation. Only 12300 were made: 11000 in 9 police and 1300 in .380.

9 Police is expensive but still findable here (old Geco, Hirtenberg and Fiocchi), 9 para cases can trimmed and resized if necessary. I already ordered 250 rounds.

And I wait with excitement.

L.
 

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Larry,

Nice find. I understand the ammo can be an issue for you. But I suspect you plan on shooting this one when you can. Please share your thoughts with us when you do.

twoguns
 

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Larry,

Wow! A PP Super in NIB condition is quite a find. Enjoy shooting your new Walther. I've only ever seen one here in the 'States and that was quite some time ago.

Wes
 

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Hello Larry,

First, my sincere congradulations on your latest purchase! You indeed must be one of the happiest shooters in Switzerland to land such a prize.

Please keep us updated when you get it in hand!

Chris
 
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They are very uncommon stateside. I find them an intriguing handgun, but when you find them they are expensive for what they are, running around $600 here. Not a lot to pay for a Walther, but then there's the ammo issue . . . . . . So far, I've passed on the ones I've seen. Maybe later.

Enjoy yours.
 

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Hello Larry,

What a find indeed!

I didn't realize until rereading your above post what a fine collection of Walthers you did indeed have in your collection! I did a "double take" when I looked at the photo you posted because the external appearance of your soon to be new Walther looks very similiar to the J.P. Saurer and Sohn H-38!

When you get it in hand, I hope that you will favor us with a range report!

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thank you all for the kind words,

Yes, Chris, I'm kind of fool about these Walthers: 1 Zella-Mehlis PP, 1940, NIB with all accessories and a 25 rounds box marked "Glaser Zurich 1841-1941, in 7,65; 1 Manurhin PPK, with Austrian borderpatrol mark, 1954 (in the first 1000 made in France), 1 P38 Ulm 1966, 1 PP Ulm, 1967 in 9 mm k, 1 P5 1981 and 1 PP Ulm, 1986, marked "Walther 100 Jahre 1886-1986" (one the first PP/PPK entirly made in Germany).

With 12300 made, PP Supers are rare here too. In more than 15 years of gun shows, I saw just one, sold NIB by a german dealer.

I really owes you pics... and definitely a range report.

L.
 

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Hello Larry,

There is something definately missing in my "collection" that I will have to rectify soon with my scant Walther collection. Maybe there will be a Walther PP on the horizon for me as well.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hello Chris,

A Walther PP, either Zella-Mehlis or Ulm, in 7,65 (the original caliber) would make a nice companion to your Sauer 38... These guns are fine metal works.

Bye

L.

P.S. Even a Manurhin PP would do it! Cost usually less and Manurhin made ALL PP (and PPK) from 1952 to 1986. "Ulm" guns were just finished and assembled in Germany from french parts.
 

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Nice find!!! The PP super didn't make it here in the states!!
I have never seen one!!
I managed to lay hold of a P5 and have not seen another one since!!
Is the 9mm Police easier to find in Europe???
 

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Hello Larry,

Well, maybe I'll do some shopping around the pawn shops on Monday and see what's out there.....I've found that they are the best source of "used" handguns with the best prices.

I'd really enjoy having a European Walther vs. the US assembled/manufactured ones.

Southern Ohio Guns has some Manhurin PP's for sale, but the wholesale is above $500.00!

(Ouchhhhh!)

They are very nice handguns. Please keep us posted on your latest!

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
500 $ for a Manurhin PP! Really stiff! You probably can something much lower - and better stick with french/german Walthers. Finish is high grade and very constant, much more than Interarms or S&W.

I visited a pawnshop in Seattle and was impressed: full of guns and guitars. Rock'n roll!

L.
 

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Hi Larry,

When do you think you'll have it in hand?

I'd really enjoy hearing about the 9mm Police in your new aquisition. How does it compare ballistically to the .380 or 9mm Luger?

Just curious as it is a relatively unknown round on this side of the ocean.

I'd dearly like to talk my brother in Virginia out of his Walther PP (Nazi manufacture), but I am afraid it would be difficult at best.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hello Chris,

Pre-1945 PP (and especially pre-1943) are jewels - hope your brother doesn't read this!

The arrival of the Super depends mostly of the state police weapon bureau... depending on the mood, they handle the papers in 10 days or 6 weeks.

The 9 Police (or 9 x 18 Ultra or Super) is at the upper limit for a blowback design. The original nazi Ultra inspired the similar 9 x 18 Makarov. Maks can shoot 9 Police but reverse is dangerous (the 9 Makarov round is slightly larger).

Ballistics look like that:

9 mm Police: 2000 bars, 330 meter/s (out of a 85 mm barrel), 301 joules, for a 95 grs bullet (Hirtenberger)
9 mm Mak: 2000 bars, 310 m/s, 288 j, for 90 grs (S+B)
.380: 1400 bars, 280 m/s, 260 joules, for 90 grs (PMP)
9 mm para: 2600 bars, 347 m/s, 451 j., for 115 grs (Win), 9 para are rated up to 594 j. (S+B)

Most come from: http://www.earmi.it/default.htm (italian)

Bye.

L.
 
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Southern Ohio Guns has some Manhurin PP's for sale, but the wholesale is above $500.00!
What does SOG think they have? They would have to be mint with original box for that price, minimum. NIB with papers would be more reasonable.

The Manhurins, although uncommon, don't command the price of a post-war ("Ulm") production Walther PP (given the same condition) on the used market stateside. Not that they aren't as good of a handgun, but a Walther is a Walther and a Manhurin is a Manhurin and market demand dictates market prices.
 

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Hi Nevadaalan,

The Manhurins are C&R eligible and I believe SOG is trying to take advantage of the market. I thought they might be too pricey to consider as well.

Chris
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Alan is right about the price, especially for collectors... even if I think that Manurhins are underrated: parts were made by Manurhin at their Mulhouse factory under Walther licence. The French workers were eager to prove that they could do as well as germans and you can see it. The guns were mounted either in Mulhouse or in Ulm for Walther marked pistols. The process went reverse for Manurhin P38s.

And most Manurhin PP/K have a polished trigger which is much better than the serrated ones on Ulm's, especially with the stiff DA pull. For example, my 1954 Manurhin PPK has extraordinary finish, honest wear notwithstanding, and very good DA/SA pulls. I shoot it up to 25 meters with surprising groups, better than my 2 Ulm PPs.

L.
 
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Hi Nevadaalan,

The Manhurins are C&R eligible and I believe SOG is trying to take advantage of the market. I thought they might be too pricey to consider as well.

Chris
I would watch SOG's website and see if the price doesn't float down eventually.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Back to the Super: the police did fast and the papers were presented yesterday by my home. But I wasn't there and have now to go to the post office to get them personnaly. I'll send the permit to the shop to get the gun sent by mail. It is 400 km from here (10 hours train go and return!). It will be in my possession next week.

By the way, I'm pleased to see that we already have exchanged 18 posts about the PPs, Super or not.

L.
 
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There's been one in 99% condition with its box sitting in a local gun shop for several months. If I can get through a really, really big gun show in my area next month without financial devastation (lol. Hasn't happened yet), I may shoot for it.
 
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