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Regulator,
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Discussion Starter #1
Walmart carries a 115 grain Remington 9mm load that is commonly referred to as "Greenbox Remington", "Generic Remington" and other similar names that tend to distinguish it from Remington's premium defensive 9mm loads.

Remington calls it their 9mm Luger 115 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point #L9mm1B. My question is this: By its low price and almost bulk packaging we are led to believe that this load is not the equal of first rate defensive ammunition. I have read shooters' opinions to that effect on different forums. But has any authoritative shooter's body, laboratory, or authoritative person tested this ammunition to determine just how effective it is as a defensive load for the 9mm, and if so what were the conclusions reached? Can shooters rest assured that this load will protect them properly if used for defense?

With the continuing escalation of defensive ammunition prices, this load offers some real appeal to shooters with its low price. But is it a case of "getting what you pay for?"

Does anybody have any ideas here? Thanks and best wishes.

Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Wow! Thanks, Josh. That's just what I was looking for. You really put a lot of work into your study and it is a very good one.
Like you, I'll look at this ammo a little more respectfully in the future, and a certain friend of mine will be delighted because he loves this load. Thanks again. Best.
Jerry
 

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Hiya Jerry,

I've been using the L9MM1B for a while now in the HP's and the new Smith, and a friend who has my Grock 26 on longterm loan has been using it for qualifications.

Function has been flawless approaching a couple thousand rounds thus far, including in the unaltered 'classic' BHP with humped ramp.

Josh's tests showed quite acceptable performance to me. Is this premium ammo with the latest technology? No, it isn't. It also doesn't cost a dollar a pop.

But I can afford to shoot enough of it in practice to feel really warm and fuzzy about its functioning. In the Silver Chrome and the new Smith its basically all I use, practice, plinking and carry

Waaaay back when I first got a 9mm we'd buy a box of Silvertips, shoot half to check POI and function, load up a couple of carry mags with the rest and hope for the best. With the newest premium stuff I'd have to go back to that and I don't want to.


Regards,

Pat
 

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Regulator,
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Discussion Starter #5
That's the situation I'm trying to get out of too, Pat. That's why I was asking. I recently bought three fifty round boxes of Winchester Ranger Law Enforcement 124 JHP's that cost $72 delivered. That's 48 cents a shot. I figure I can shoot the Remington load for roughly 25 cents a shot at very most, which allows me to shoot a lot more and carry a lot more too. But I kept hearing the pundits condemn anything but the latest superwhoopdedoo hi-tech rounds and I just wanted to look a little closer at the Remington product. I am really tickled with the professionalism of Josh's study because it gives a definite and well-grounded answer that's hard to argue with. And your experiences are icing on the cake. So I'll also feel more comfortable about carrying the similar Greenbox .40 load as well. Thanks guys, I really appreciate all of the great information.....I couldn't have wished for more. Best.

Jerry
 

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Welcomes. :)

I have shot the GreenBox .45ACP some in the Grock 21 and in the now departed Combat Commander. No great amounts though.

At some point I'll start running up a round count in the .40's with it, though I'm in no rush since I haven't been using them much lately and I'm still nursing the remnants of a case of 155gr Silvertips.

From Josh's tests the L9MM1B seems to perform just fine. Maybe not as large a diameter as the new premium loads, but adequate. Denim didn't seem to affect it much. Not getting jacket separations with water jug tests was impressive.


Regards,

Pat
 

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Figured I'd go take the last of this months fundage to Walleyworld and stock up before they raised prices again.

Too late.

Price went up from $19.72 to $20.76; not as bad as it could have been but still an increase.


Regards,

Pat
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah. I don't mind shooting buckshot, but I sure don't like the buck-a-shot variety! The generic ammo we've been talking about here is sure gaining an appeal with me. I only wish the Federal load was as reasonable, and I'm trying to find a local Wallyworld that handles the winny 124 grain JHP since the bullet is believed to be the Silvertip without the silver color. All I can find locally is the winny 147 JHP. Best.

Jerry
 

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Most all the Walmarts dropped the 115gr USA load in favour of the 147gr. There's a thread here someplace where one of the guys wrote the store manager and someone in corporate and they brought several cases to his local store for stock.

Up til then I'd been buying them for carry and plinking with ball. By the time he'd posted that it was still in their national stock and available to all the stores I'd already switched to the L9mm1B.

The Federal and Remington bullet profiles are a lot closer to the shape of ball and might feed better in older guns like my 73C, though it never had any problems with the USA JHP loads of either weight.

The USA 147gr was about $15 per 50 yesterday as I recall, so the 115gr would be slightly less if they maintain the same price ratio as before. That puts them up near $30/100.

Federal C9BP might be comparable in price. Don't know. Anyone bought any recently?


Regards,

Pat
 

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I shot a box of this stuff today - 9mm, 115 grain JHP, green box Remington. Fed flawlessly in my new Springfield EMP - the only JPH ammo so far to do so, other than the FMJ stuff.

Problem is, the slide fails to lock back on the last round in the mag, just about every other mag. The pistol is relatively new - I've run about 300 FMJ rounds through it without a blip, and a box of Corbon and Speer, with a few FTF and two primers failing to ignite.

I'm very happy with the accuracy and smooth feeding of the Remington green box 115 so far. I'm concerned about the slide issue. Anyone with any advice? Is it possible the combination of light load and short slide do not permit for enough energy to move the slide all the way back into the lock position on the last round?

TM
 

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Lack of slide momentum due to lighter loaded ammo sounds to be your problem. What are you using for lube? Sometimes a slicker lube will help with this. As for me, the only thing I've shot with the Remington Green box was a big 'ol Cottonmouth. I must admit it did a pretty fair job, almost blew him in half.
 

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I have had good experiences with the green 115, runs great thru the hipowers (even the 1938 FN)
been stocking up, about 2000 rnds in the locker
 

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If you like Silvertips you should check out the Winchester "Personal Protection" line. It's sold at some Wal-Marts. Many believe it is a Silvertip without the nickel plating.

Two Pistol Packer at www.ktog.org has done quite a bit of testing these. He tested them against the Remington. It seems the Wins expanded more reliably. The Rem/UMC, also sold at WM, penetrated better but didn't expand as well.

I have read reports of hard primers with the Rem but have never had a problem with it personally, nor has Packer. I asked him specifically about the Rem/UMC 9mm Luger during a pen. vs. expansion thread.

You can try these links:

Winter/Summer Wetpack Test:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=115853775 7

.22, .32, .380 and 9mm Wetpack Test: (MONSTER)

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=104;action=display;num=114867002 5

PF-9 CHEAP AMMO WETPACK TEST:

http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=newpistol;action=display;num=116 6079918

Safe Shooting,
Dave
 

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P. S. I'm the guy who wrote Wal-Mart and asked them to stock the Win 115 JHP. They bought cases of it. I explained in my letter that some 9 s won't cycle the 147s.
 

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Ah! Thanks for the info back then (and now).

By the time you posted that I'd already changed to the REM/UMC greenbox.

Thanks again!

Pat
 

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This stuff is beginning to show up again after a LOOOOONG dry spell. Picked up 700 rounds last month. I be happy.

I be happier when its in all the stores all the time.


Regards,

Pat
 

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I tested more than a few of these rounds in critters in the 90s. Every now and then I got epansion. The +P version was much more reliable terminaly for me.

Since this thread is a tad old and even I noticed a couple years ago this round was hard to find, it makes me wonder if there was some sort of revision on the projectile.

I might have to find some and retest, and thats the fun of it all.......

and holy old thread!! wow..
 

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Hiya Boris,

I suspect they may have changed it some. With a lot of JHP in the 80's and 90's either expansion was wishful thinking, or they blew up.

Shooting water jugs and 'ballistic mud' I'm not seeing the jacket separations I'd expect from 90's tech.

Was the stuff you were working with the Express (first tier) ammo or UMC (el-cheapo)? Not sure if the projectiles were any different back then. Anyone know?

Would be interesting to see you repeat the tests with current production. :) :)


Regards,

Pat
 

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Back in the day they used the same projectile in the regular and +P versions. The extra velocity made it a reliable expander, but muzzle flash was pretty bright.

I used the Express stuff. The UMC back then was the worst 9mm ever. They used too fast a powder and guns like SIG and Glock hate fast powders with light bullets. The UMC version was terrible in them guns but functioned my P89 at the time just fine.

I might pickup a box and give it a whirl here in a couple weeks. If I do I will give a full report. I also have some S&B full CIP spec 115 JHP. Their regular ammo is pretty hot but the ammo marked 'POLICE' on the box is their way of saying it is "+P+" as SAAMI would put it. It is just ammo loaded to CIPs full 39,200 psi for the 9x19mm.It has pretty much the same specs as 9BPLE with a smaller hollowpoint cavity.

If I get enough critters to test on I will give a report on as many as I can test. I have a 45GAP 230 grain HST load I want to test on deer along with the Winchester 45 Long Colt 225 grain PDX load.

Lots of testing to do!! If I am blessed enough to get enough animals to test on, I will let ya know......

almost forgot, thanks for the pretest information. Being a little short on the time line I will use your pretest results ;)
 
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