[ccwman]

Fiocchi claims their 123 grn. 9mm Luger does 1250 fps for 425 ft lbs. That quite high for a 9mm.

Does anyone know if this is true? I've always read that Fiocchi is hot ammo.

 

[jaydubya]

I avoid the red box Fiocchi for that reason. It must be close to +p, and after firing a box of it with my T-series Hi Power, I swore off it. I use standard pressure Speer Gold Dot.
Cordially, Jack

 

[lelandray]

The 124-grain NATO loading moves out at just about 1250, and I think the Fiocchi pretty much emulates the NATO load. While heavy, the NATO loading should be safe in limited numbers in a Hi Power; I carry the NATO Dutch loaded with 127-grain Winchester +P+ Rangers in a Mark III that has been outfitted with a heavier (18.5 lb) recoil spring and have had no problems with the gun after quite a few rounds.

I don't shoot it often, but I know my gun will handle it. I would not shoot it in anything with collector value, like a T Series, but I have no issue with shooting it in a gun with a beefier recoil spring.

The salient issue about "safety" is about chamber pressure, no matter what the ballistics. I tend to believe the Fiocchi runs somewhat higher pressures than the NATO standard ammo, but that belief is based on nothing more than anecdotal evidence, as I've seen no verifiable figures which either confirm or contradict this claim.

 

[abninftr]

Okay, one more time.

There is no direct relation between velocity and pressure. Certainly, there is a perceived relationship, but that is only perception. You can have high velocity without necessarilly having +P pressures, and you can have +P pressure with a low, or 'normal' velocity.

I'm not a ballistician or an engineer, but here is a crude explanation. Velocity is a product of pressure amongst other things in the equation. The trick is that the burn rate of a given powder may be such that it exceeds the needed pressure 'prematurely' and more pressure than is needed is generated before the bullet leaves the barrel. It is also possible that a particular powder burns so quickly that it reaches its peak pressure (even an 'excessive' pressure') prematurely enough that the bullet actually begins to 'decelerate' before it leaves the barrel.

 

[jaydubya]

Lelandray said: "I would not shoot it in anything with collector value, like a T Series, "

I wish my T-series were still collectable, but when the front sight fell out, and I could not find it, I had to have a new one milled in. It is now thoroughly gussied up with CT grips and the C&S SFS kit.
Cordially, Jack

 

[lelandray]

Okay, one more time.

There is no direct relation between velocity and pressure. Certainly, there is a perceived relationship, but that is only perception. You can have high velocity without necessarilly having +P pressures, and you can have +P pressure with a low, or 'normal' velocity.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't trying to imply that there is such a relationship, only that from what I have heard, the Fiocchi's pressures tend to run high. Ballistically, however, the Fiocchi and the NATO round seem to be nearly equal in performance.

I've seen some fairly "tame" handloads that actually produced dangerous pressures, and I've seen some that produce high velocities without passing through the red zone of safety.

While the +P designation on ammunition is meant to be a warning that the ammo's pressure is higher than "standard," it is also used rather crudely to imply that such ammunition is somehow more potent than other types, and thus the designation has value as a marketing tool, as well as being a practical warning.

 

[abninftr]

Leland, my comment was directed to the 'audience' for whom there may be some question, and not in reply to your post.

My apologies for any unintended offence.