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Hi All,

Another thread is turning into a discussion about lasers. I figure I'll create a new one dedicated to the handgun mounted laser.

My opinion: Don't like 'em. They amplify every minute movement and I shoot worse with them than without. Slower too because I get preoccupied with trying to make the thing hold still.

Thoughts?

Josh <><
 

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They sure look cool on TV, don't they?

The only reason I can see for having one is to let a BG know that he's in your sights and won't be allowed to keep doing whatever nasty thing he was doing that got you to light him up in the first place.

I've never shot with a laser, but I've played with laser equipped guns some, and I would really be concerned about over concentration on precise alignment.
 

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As I previously stated, I've had some experience with laser equipped guns. Internal lasers, either guide rod or grip are better than someting slung under the dust cover. There isn't a noticeable change in the balance of the gun, and you don't need a different holster.

Earlier, I also said that in my opinion their forte is CQB point shooting, or as an option for someone who cannot use normal sight or sight normally for some reason.

That being said, yes the dot does dance around, and can be distracting. Laser users often "chase the dot" which slows down their shooting. My observation has been that if the shooter doesn't launch one as soon as the dot hits the zone he'll focus on the dot and slow down.

I also think the subject seeing the dot on himself is a hollywood exaggeration. I've noticed that unless the subject sees the laser light's shine, or its beam that he doesn't seem to be aware of the dot.
 

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Hi there abinftr,

Your observations are "right on the spot as usual".

Don't care much for lasers. In this month's American Rifleman, the Crimson Trace Lasers are being covered in an article. Nice way to add $285.00 to the cost of the gun. I'd wind up changing out the grips anyways.

Chris
 

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While I am a born skeptic, I try to keep an open mind and will listen to anyones case.

My friends Marty Hayes (of Firearms Academy of Seatle) and Ken Hackathorne both are converts at least to the accceptance of lasers.

My personal gut feelings more resemble Josh's points. #1 they slow me down at close range (this is not speculation....I tried lasers over a decade ago and continue to check up on them now and then).

Tactiacally they tend to give away your position in the dark. Coincidentally I was just looking at the new S&W 1911 with Crimson Trace laser grips yesterday. There was no way to hold the weapon firmly without lighting the laser....this simply will not do! The old CT grips did not do that and I suppose I had better be picking up a set before they disappear.

Still, experience last year with varmints at night gave me the impression that lasers are not totally useless. They may also be useful for firearms instruction.

I will remain open minded but for the moment they are at best a secondary sighting system for me.

Make not mistake though, both Marty and Ken can impress you with their use.

Enlightening topic ;)

Onward,
Jim
 
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I recently bought an M6 for my G21, but only because of the effect they have on BG's to realise they are under a gun. Before I got one, they never knew a gun was pointed at tehm because they only saw my flashlight. They stop messing around a lot faster when a dot is bouncing in front of them. I don;t use it to shoot though, and would never want one on y CHL gun.
 

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Still not sold a 100% on them, but they have their uses, I do like to try one with new shooters that are having trouble,and it has help in some cases
 
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I've had a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips on my J-Frame Smith (638) for several years. I LOVE em'... I'm a senior citizen and my eyes and hands aren't as sharp and steady as when I was younger. I don't have any interest in long distance target shooting. I do have a strong interest in being able to hit a target consistantly at self defense range. I find I am MUCH more accurate with the CT equipped J-Frame than I am with any other of my snubbies. The concern about the "dancing dot" is of no consequence as the red dot simply shows you the approximate point of bullet impact and the small bit of movement is not a problem. In low light, or night conditions the laser amplifies the potential for hitting the target tremendously.

Contrary to the opinions posted I think a red laser beam pointed at a bg at night would be of interest to him/her. It MIGHT be just distracting enough to give you another micro-second to center the red dot in the center of his chest. Either way, it won't hurt.

I have a CAT laser on my Bersa Thunder "9" (ultra compact) and I'm very pleased with it also. I find the Bersa/CAT setup to be too large for concealed carry, but for a home self-defense pistol it is excellent.

I live in the country and our property is surrounded by zillions of acres of woods. If I go out in the yard at night for whatever reason I always carry a laser equipped firearm. We have all sorts of "night sounds" and 99.9% of them are just nature calls, but I carry a firearm for the other .1% that might stop by with bad intentions.

My favorite pistol is my SIG P239. It has been 100% reliable and amazingly accurate from day one. (years ago). I have been patiently waiting for CT to release a CT Lasergrip for it, and when it is available I WILL be in line to purchase one. The CT lasergrip will make the wonderful little Sig even better.

I'm very happy for young folks with young eyes, or old folks with young eyes. For many years I didn't even consider the need for a laser. But in my doteage I find laser equipped firearms to be precisely what my tired old eyes need. For many years the laser products were pretty much crap. But in the past few years I've found that several laser manufacturers are making fantastic lasers. I've found Crimson Trace and LaserMax to be top quality, and my recent acquisition of a model specific CAT laser for my Bersa has been very a satisfying experience.

Up until the past couple of years or so most articles written in firearms publications about the various laser options were for the most part negative.. I've noticed recently that seems to be changing. I'm not surprised.

For my specific needs, short range self defense I've found quality lasers to be a wonderful aid in accuracy. I can't speak for anyone else but the lasers on my S/W and Bersa firerms work for me.
 

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Thought I'd heard the U.S. military is buying IR Lasergrips in quantity for the M9. That would be a different kettle of fish, though I agree with Laserlips; an Airweight Smith snubby is not the easiest weapon to master, and the grips made it a breeze to hip fire it accurately. It's not hard to imagine some scenarios when aimed sighted fire is just not possible. If it takes a second to find the dot, at least you'll know you'll hit when you squeeze that trigger.
 

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I've got three Crimson trace lasers.
One on a 4 inch 45 Kimber, night stand gun.
One on a Smith J frame, back door gun.
One on a Smith Model 14, fun gun.
and a laser on a Bushmaster .223 pistol.

There's a couple more I want, like for the Makarov, but CT hasn't made them yet.

In it's element the laser is king.
I carry the J Frame around my place at night. I have it sighted in at 30+ yards, which makes a 50 yard shot pretty easy.
The same shot I would have difficulty making with iron sights during the day.

Most people have wrong ideas about using the laser.

You do not shine it around like a flash light.
You point the pistol as you normally would, hit the laser and squeeze the trigger. With a little practice it becomes very fast with a very high hit probability and in very low light.

Almost without fail people that shoot my lasers want one.

The laser, like any shooting skill takes practice to gain speed and accuracy. About half the people I've seen try them couldn't hit with them at first.

A couple months ago a friend was involved in a shooting on the highway.
Given the chance he could have returned fire but the chance of hitting the shooter's vehicle without being able to aim would have been slim. With a laser he could not only easily have hit the vehicle but hit it pretty much where he wanted.
A couple weeks later he bought a CT laser for his 45 Wilson. :)
 

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During my misadventures around the farm, I can't count the number of times I've had to fire without the sights. There is no one particular situation- it comes up all the time whenever shots are close, fast, at night, and waiting for a perfect shot isn't an option.

I have managed to do fairly well at it, because I learned instinctive shooting. However, I can't help but wonder how often a laser could actually help. It took me a long time, and thousands of rounds (through dad's .22 Ruger) to learn instinctive shooting. With a laser, I could've done it while watching TV, and no ammo cost.

Someday when I've got the discretionary funds, I plan to try one out- but agree I would want a "built- in" model rather than hanging stuff off the gun.
 

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IMO Lasers are just an option, FOR THOSE WHO HAVE AN INTEREST. Some folks seem to be dedicated to iron sights.. I was too, a long, long time ago. Then I had by the necessity of decreasing vision to look for better 3 dot white sights. Then with the advent of modern, quality laser products I gave them a try.. More better, so to speak....

I don't recommend laser sights for everyone. It seems gun owners who have a need will seek them out. If the good Lord has blessed you with sufficient vision that you don't want or need laser sights, great for you.

But, I really think the majority of firearms owners who actually have the opportunity to try a quality laser product will be a bit surprised at what they find. (or see). The CT on my J-Frame Smith has turned a snubby that I couldn't hit spit with originally to a snubby that I can "walk cans" with at a reasonable distance. At night or low light conditions they work. very well..

Unless you''ve tried a CT or perhaps a LaserMax, or CAT laser recently you need to reconsider a negative opinion until you have hands on experience. If you still aren't happy with lasers then just like this old fart you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

You might be surprised at what you find..

Best Wishes, dissenting opinions cheerfully accepted, and with my short term memory loss, probably ignored.

PX
 
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Lasers are a unique tool that offer some advantages unavailable to the "iron only" crowd. Once I thought they were useless for anything but tormenting your cat by getting him to chase the laser. I'm not too big to admit I was wrong. I prefer CT Laser Grips, but there are other options just as good. The trick was the development of the right tactics, once that was done, they now offer distinct advangages. For defensive purposes, I'll always seek to have a laser on my gun, but if I dont have one, I'm still ok without it.

GunGeek
 

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just put CrimsonTrace on my S&W and they work great in dim light and in the shade.
In bright sunlight the red dot is hard to see on a black target and open sights are better.
But at night in a dim room where you can't see regular sights the laser is really great, point the red dot on the target with both eyes open, no lining up spots on night sights. I think a lots better than the tritium night sights. The laser costs more ($230 v.s. $140 for tritium) but a lot better.
I had to find some shade at the range to zero mine and the dot was too hard to see in bright sunlight. And once I got it zeroed, a lot more accurate than the open sights too.
Maybe just a novelty, but for at night they are great.
og
 

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Update.
My friend that bought the Crimson Trace laser for his Wilson just bought a CT laser for his Clock 19.

I'm not a Glock fan but even I liked the Glock grip better with the laser installed.

Now I have to find a good laser for my Kel Tec PLR-16. :)

 

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Hey there H&A gang,

I guess I'm resurrecting the laser thread, although it has been fairly well covered. I've seen the laser at the range contribute to bad marksmanship factors like jerking, rushing the trigger squeeze, anticipating the shot and so on: all deleterious to good accuracy. On the other hand, I just went through a concealed carry "dry run" and seen good use made of the CTC lasergrips. I'd concur with og's points above about low-light situations, etc. I tend to be inordinately suspicious of new-fangled technological gadgets and gizmos, but the laser can help some shooters get good hits.

--d.
 

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one thing a laser on your snub nose J-frame will do for you is help you learn to steady your grip. The laser dot will jump around on the target the first time you try it, offhand that is, and encourage you to learn to hold the snub revolver steady. So rather than discourage marksmanship, it actually helps.
Let a friend try mine at the range yesterday and he was amazed that he wasn't as steady as he thought he was.
og
 

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Sunday a friend ran about five magazines through my ARMA laser equipped Kel Tec 32.
That was the first time he shot it.
At seven yards he put three magazines inside two inches and most of the rounds in two jagged holes.

Funny thing is he can't do nearly that well shooting the KT 32 without the laser. :)
 
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I have an M6 on my HK, but I rarely use it. It's there if I need it but I actually shoot just as well without it. I mainly bought it for the flashlight, the laser was just extra coolness.
 
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