[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I've heard varying opinion s about using steel cased ammo in a firearm with an internal extractor like the 1911.

I was looking at a case of Wolf and debating. I do have some reloading stuff on the way, but I have a feeling that will take me a while to get set up for, and stockpile enough that I can shoot without restraint, much like I do with .22lr.

What are your opinions of steel cased ammo in the 1911 pattern pistol?

Thanks,

Josh <><

 

[jimhigginbotham]

Actually, I dont think it has anything to do with internal or external extractors.

I would not fire steel cased ammo in any handgun that did not have a lot of taper to the cartridge case - i.e. 9X19 para or 7.62X25.

The problem is not the extractor it is case wall adhesion. The misconception however must come from WW-II non coated steel cased .45 Ammo which was supposed to be oiled after it was stored a while.

I know I shot a lot of it in my youth (not oiled as I did not know about that then). I wont shoot any .45 or .40 S&W steel cased ammo now (even if it was free) and I would not buy steel cased 9mm ammo, but I might shoot some if it was given to me.


Jim H.

 

[andersongw]

I've shot a couple cases of wolf .45 in different 1911's with no problems. It is a mess to clean up and have had more than a few misfires due to hard primers mostly.

my opinion, any 1911 that will go through 500 rounds of that dirty crap without cleaning and still function is a 1911 that is hard to make choke.

 

[elb]

Interesting comments. I have read a lot of posts on various forums warning against steel case ammo (and usually mentioning extractors), but very few actually citing direct experience in using it. Most posts with citing direct experience -- in fact, all but Mr. Higginbotham's post -- have claimed few problems in using steel case (and I believe it was generally Wolf ammo). The sum total of these posts probably doesn't exceed five or six.

Mr. Higginbotham, disregarding the early .45 steel case that had to be oiled, did you have problems specific problems, e.g. extraction, with steel case stuff?

elb

 

[Chris Stephens]

Hello Josh,

I'd buy a case of it if I could while waiting for your reloading equipment. I've heard the pro's and con's of Wolf for years, but then again--I've had pretty good results with it. I wouldn't worry about the extractor too much--after all, if it gets worn then you can always replace it.

Chris

 

[jimhigginbotham]

I dont think I have ever fired a Wolf round in one of my .45s or .40s. That does not mean I have not seen plenty of it shot.

When Wolf first came out we saw a good bit of it amongst the students. In .45 and .40 S&W, regardless of gun designs I saw quite a few malfunctions and they went away when students quit using the Wolf.

I think there was something wrong with the case dimensions on the first shipments of Wolf as we had quite a few that would not actually chamber (unless you smacked the back of the slide hard) on some gun designs (Sig, H&K, Witness and Kimber) to get the slide to go into battery. That disappeared on later lots. We still see more malfuncitons with it than with any other brand of ammo other than possibly Blazer aluminum (aluminum however does not break extractors).

All of the above just points out that there were some problems that seemed to relate to the ammo. It does not mean that everyone who uses or used Wolf or other steel cased ammo had problems.

My experience in rifles has been less than stellar.


Early on I purchased a case of Wolf steel cased in .223. It would work in one of my Colts (an HBAR) and would not work in the my duty Govt. Carbine - which has a 5.56 chamber which should not be as tight - It would leave the case completely in the chamber.

I gave the case of ammo to a local game warden who took it out west to shoot vermin with his Mini-14. While it was very inaccurate, it did seem to funciton.

Wolf .308 did the same thing in a friends Bolt action .308. It was a Howa (same as Weatherby Vanguard) which has an excellent SAKO style extractor.

.22 Steel cased Russian ammo did not work in any of my 3 Colt Woodsman autos nor my Walther PPK/S (but then very little worked in that gun).

Any time a round is left the in the chamber it is time to inspect the extractor to see if it is broken - in both cases above there was no damage but I will never fire steel cased ammo in them again.

I dont hesitate to use it in my SKS or my AK as the taper is generous and they have really solid extraction systems (moreso than any pistol).

Dont know if this helps. Just random experiences.

I dont know what Wolf costs now, I have not priced it since the early days, but it was never much less expensive than Blazer (which I dont care for that much either). Blazer Brass has been running about $13 a box of late at Wal-Mart. That works in my 1911s but I have seen it fail in other guns which I know work with Winchester, Remington or Federal so I am not 100% sure on that - I have been shooting a good bit of it but the jury is out.

Jim H.

 

[weshowe]

Gents,

Ditto on Jim's last comments. While I am no longer an active trainer I saw a disproportionate number of stoppages with Wolf ammo.
The only steel case ammo I use today is for my AK's and it's military packed...not aftermarket Wolf or other brands.

Wes

 

[andersongw]

Like I say, I used it as a torcher test. I have a SIG 220 that had around 500 rounds of Wolf through it without cleaning before it had a FTF. cleared it and ran another 100 rounds. cleaned it up and never put another round of Wolf in it. it was a mess to clean up

That seemed to be a tough test for the SIG!

that was the old laquered cases, the new polymer stuff is not as bad.

I've been shooting wolf 9x18 through a P64 and vz82 and been getting 3-4 missfires/50rds(hard primers). I assume these two guns were made for this type of ammo.

pratice ammo at best.

 

[oberstlt]

I see lots and lots of Wolf steel cased stuff used in IDPA competition primarily by Glock users. I see lots of it used thru AKs and SKS but then again, that is what they were designed to use. I do not personally use Wolf in my M1911s or my BHP but I have considered it for use in my Glocks. I routinely use either the Russian surplus (corrosive) or Russian commercial (Barnul, Wympel or Wolf) in my AK. When those darn things quit working it is time to change mags!

I am willing to reload when ammo is costy but as long as you are willing to have dirty guns and broken extractors/ejectors, I see it used a lot.

 

[elb]

Mr. H,

Thanks for the update with details. Thanks to the others as well. Very helpful.

(as an aside - I have used lots of 9mm Blazer aluminum case in my BHP -- probably four thousand rounds or so -- and it was dead reliable in it. Which of course has the tapered case. )

 

[spikey614]

I ran into a fellow that works at the Krebs Company, they make AK's and other fire arm stuff. Anyway I was purchasing some 5.56 ammo in bulk and decided to pick up some of the Wolf Steel Case stuff. While in line he asked me what I was going to use the Wolf in. I told him my AR rifle and he said it would break the extractor unless it was desinged for the steel case's. He did say that the Mini 14's can use the steel case stuff with out any problems. So I have some for the Mini on hand. So unless you have an extractor that is designed for steel case's don't use it in your AR rifle. I don't know about steel case pistol ammo. After being told that about the AR I decided to stay away from it.