[Guest]

Remington, for whatever reason, makes the Golden Saber, at least in 9mm, in both standard and +P loadings. I like the standard, for the faster follow-ups. Many would say there's no difference, but I can really tell, as the lower speed reduces muzzle flip, quite a bit.

I'm not really clear on how the lower speed would effect expansion vs. penetration, but that's not what factors in to my decision the most, anyway. I'm someone who is comfy with +P .38,* from a 2.5" tube, and I figure that even the standard pressure 9mm from a 4.7" barrel has to be more effective than that.

Also, they shoot to point of aim for me, which is always a huge plus, and I've never had one choke my CZ, despite their admittedly brutal ogive profile and OAL.

*Also golden sabers -- I'm a big fan of the bullet design, after some of my own expansion/penetration testing, but the .357s I tried were*HOT,* and I didn't want to subject a K-frame to them. What's more, they're less expensive. I will admit that I've seen a poorly-seated primer on a Golden Saber, before, though, so I hand-inspect each of my carry rounds, immediately after, or if possible, before buying them.

 

[oldgranpa]

thank you, chubbypigeon, for posting this interesting topic. I was not even aware that the GoldenSabr was available in both std. and +p in 9mm until you posted this. I bet many others weren't aware of it either. I looked in my ammo pile to see what I had and it is the standard pressure, so I voted std.
Remington's ballistic data shows a very small difference, 1125fps for std. and 1180fps for +p. I don't have a comparison to say if +p is any better. But in the wetpack tests I've done with the std. GS, it expands and penetrates with excellent results. And that was with a shorter barrel Kahr pistol. Checking Stephen's pages, I didn't see any tests he made with GoldenSabr 9mm, perhaps he can comment further.
I have no clue why Remington would make both rounds since velocity is nearly the same.
Checking Sportsman'sGuide (one of our sponsors that I recommend and use), the price difference wasn't that much. But like chubby says, the std. GS shoots better for him.

Hope the 9mm fans here will shed more light on this topic.

thanks again, chubby

og

(Rem also makes std. & +p GS in 185gr .45acp, I found out, but let's keep this topic on 9mm. thanks!)

 

[twoguns]

Howdy folks,

My agency was lucky enough to hire a retired HP White ballistician as he had grown tired of retirement life. Jim was a super guy, and became our first true "ammo expert", which was largely his primary job. He would take the Treasury ammo contract and select our authorized duty and training rounds from the contract.

I enjoyed many very interesting face to face and phone conversations with Mr. Jim, and found him to be a great resource on both my office and personal ammo questions.

He selected both the standard and +P Remington GS rounds for duty use, along with the Speer standard, +P, and +P+ loads in 9mm. The first two Speer loads were 124 gr, like the GS, while the Speer +P+ was a 115 gr. We quickly discovered the Speer +P+ was damaging the roller blocks in our issued MP-5s, and killed it use then.

I checked my ammo cabinet and found I have both the standard and +P loadings in both the Remington and the Speer 9mm loads. Personally I do not feel underarmed using any of the four in my pistols. I really don't see a significant difference in performance between the standard velocity and +P loadings either.

I am just thinking out loud here, but I do know some LE agencies by policy require their issued pistols to be loaded with +P ammo. That may well be why Remington elected to add that loading, and possibly Speer and several other companies too. Again, just thinking out loud.

I am a firm believer someone should pick the weapon and ammo that works the best for them. Once they have chosen them, shoot as often with both as their finances will allow. Chubby if the standard GS works best for you, I agree with OG totally, then that is what you should carry and use. As you noted the standard GS shoot POA - POI for you, and you feel you shoot it better than your do the +P loads. Based on both, my personal opinion is that it is not broken for you, so why fix/change it.

I think shot placement is far more important than standard versus +P ammo performance - at least with any reputable round in 9mm loading anyway. My personal opinion is if you put the round where it will have the desired effect, the badguy will not notice the difference between a standard or +P load.

My confidence level is high in both brands and load levels, as I know Mr. Jim personally selected them for our duty rounds. That meant a lot to my personal comfort level with this caliber. That being said, when I am loading a mag for duty or off duty use, I do tend to load with the +P rounds. I do think the difference is minimal, but I still opt for the slightly faster muzzle velocity they offer. So based on that fact, while I think the difference is not significant to me, I voted for the +P.

But like OG said, thanks for posting this one sir. I think it is an excellent question, and will hopefully generate some great discussion.

twoguns

 

[pff]

Hiya chubby!

Makes zero difference to me in 9mm, other than I picked up a case of +P some years back at whitebox prices and I have well over half of it left. I ran a few mags of it through the old HP and they fed fine, even with the humped feedramp. I'm not wild about putting hot loads through it without changing the recoil spring, so haven't shot it much with that load. The standard load would get more use from me (if thats what I had on hand, untill it ran out) but I'd prolly not buy either at the current prices.

In .45 I have a box of each of the various weights and pressures that I never got around to testing.

Have a few boxes of +P .38 I use in the S&W 342. Would buy the non +P if it was available (and expanded) for the other .38 snubs.

So, I guess it 'depends'.

Regards,

Pat