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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A question: This Smith and Wesson ammo is something I've never heard of. I only got it because it's made by a reputable manufacturer and, as I'm new to the .38spl (mostly .357mag in wheelies before), I figured a proven effective load would be a good starting point. Can anyone give me any info on this stuff? How does it rate in the SWCLHP +P dept, say, against Federal? Same pure lead? Has it been dropped from manufacture, and if so, why?



Thanks,

Josh <><
 

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Hello, Josh. I shot it decades ago but it's not been made in years. If I remember correctly, this ammo was made for S&W by Fiocchi. I've not clocked or tested any of it.

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Mr. Josh,

I was wondering where you found that box of ammo when I saw it in your earlier post. I could certainly be wrong, but the last time I bought a box of S&W ammo was probably back in the late 70s or early 80s at most. I remember there was a period when S&W decided to offer a line of ammo, but I thought they had stopped manufacturing that line years ago. I still have a box or two identical in appearance to the one in your pic, but I know how old those rounds are now.

Remembering that I have a good friend who owns a gun store, I rarely go in a different gun store. All I can say is I have never seen any Smith ammo in my buddy's store. As many Smiths as he sells, I would expect him to carry the ammo too if he could get it.

I thought the Smith ammo I used worked fine, and would compare it favorably to any of the major manufacturers. I just felt like they decided they could not make much of a dent in the existing market, so they dropped the ammo line. I recall that about the same time they began to offer ammo, they also began to market holsters and leathergoods as well.

If you come across any Gould's and Goodrich (spelling from memory?), that is the name that the Smith leather eventually was changed to. So based on that I guess it is possible that they still make ammo, and have simply renamed it to a brand I do not recognize. For some reason Fiocchi comes to mind, but I could be wrong.

Unless you have an abundant supply of this ammo in a store, I would probably suggest you just stick with the Federal load. Of if not the Federal, another load you could find in a variety of stores more easily.

Again, now you have me wondering if the Smith ammo is still in production or not. So I am hoping someone has the correct answer Mr. Josh.

twoguns
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Mr. Camp and Mr. Twoguns, thank you.

Twoguns, the gent who runs this store calls it "Gunners Trading Post." It's called that for a good reason: He'll trade in anything legal.

He has an abundant supply of this ammo to be sure, but the boxes are beat up and look old (the shells are fine). I figure that since this revolver was not build to +P specs and I have 50 rounds of the stuff, it should last me at least a year. I might go grab another box or two just in case though. I will eventually switch over to Federal or whatever he procures after this stuff is sold. It's been sitting there literally for years though. I noticed it the first time I went into the place.

Thanks again,

Josh <><
 

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S&W ammo is old enough that its becoming collectible as long as the boxes are in good shape.

The ballistics listed in the flier I found make me cringe unless they were taken in a rifle barrel. Hot stuff if the flier is to be believed.


Still good ammo if its in good shape. If half a box goes bang every time, I'd sort of trust the other half.

[ETA] Federal took over the Nyclad line from S&W, and has since dropped them. (Dangit)

They also dropped the LSWCHP loads they had. Nowadays the only option for those is Remchester.


Regards,

Pat
 

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Hiya Josh,


In .38 special (no mention of +P but it seems like there are two levels of velocity) it shows the 158gr HP loads at 1060FPS and the 125gr loads at 1350FPS. Thats pretty hot. The 148gr wadcutters are at 800 which is believable.

In .357 it lists loads from 1500 to 2000FPS (!!). The 9mm seems more normal, at 1145 for 115gr loads and 1350 for 90gr.

This flyer came with the other paperwork and such included with a pistol made in the early to mid 1970's .

Hope this helps a little. Sure would be interesting to run them over a chrono.

Regards,

Pat
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hello, thanks! I'll probably buy a box or two more for shooting, then find some pristine boxes as I'm allowed to go behind the counter and pick out my own ammo.

I doubt this revolver will see more than a few hundred rounds of +P in its lifetime as it's not rated for it and I'll only shoot the +P every 6 months when it's time to put a new load in.

Thanks again,

Josh <><
 

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Use to shoot S&W ammo in .38 and .380 quite a bit as it was issued for practice and for a very short time it was duty ammo. S&W was, ahem, let's just say "generous" with their published velocity figures. The .38+P out of a 4" barrel actually clocked about 900 fps and 2" barrels about 800 fps. They got their velocity figures with longer (10"?) sealed test barrels which were unrealistic figures.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wow, I was just gonna post that from The Firing Line, attributing it to a member that I suppose is you! Now I know...

Thank you very much. That's a load off my mind.

Josh <><
 

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When this thread dredged up an old memory, I began rummaging about and found a box of S & W Nyclad 125 gr. HP 9mm ammunition. Stamped "made in U.S.A." on the box of 50 (only nine fired), the labeling states, "Nyclad ammunition, the result of intensive research and development in Smith & Wesson's modern ballistic facilities, represents a revolutionary breakthrough in ammunition design." It goes on to tout the leading reduction qualities of these nylon jacketed bullets. Am I correct in assuming that S & W later sold the rights to Federal?
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Yo Corky!

Either that, or Federal already had owned the rights and made it for S&W as an exclusive; when Smith lost interest they brought it out under their own banner, possibly paying for the NyClad mark. Next time I'm researching trademarks using TESS I'll try to remember to look it up. Now I'm curious about it. :)


Regards,

Pat
 

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Hello. Orignally, Fiocchi made the S&W line of ammunition. Federal did buy the rights to the Nyclad line and redesigned them so that they actually expanded. S&W's version of the Nyclad 38 Special hollowpoint resembled a SWC but didn't expand well. Likewise their 9mm HP was truncated cone in shape. Federal's versions of both included pure lead bullets coated with nylon in the 125-gr. 38 Special standard pressure. The 124-gr. 9mm Nyclad HP and their 125-gr. 38 Special +P both had antimony added to make the lead a bit harder. I'm told that the +P and standard pressure 38 HP's performed about the same. Under Federal, these bullets went to a round nose profile.

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Thanks Stephen! More pieces to the puzzle. I did not know about the differences in alloy; the 125gr +P had a smaller hollow point than the standard.

Regards,

Pat
 

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Yes, back when S&W was king of LEO markets, they subcontracted out the S&W to just about everything from knives, leather and ammo. They had a nylon coated lead ammo that was very popular. I think it made leading less of an issue. But new high performance ammo did it in.
 

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Howdy,

Thanks for reminding me about their knives. I just checked, I still have two of their fixed blades in the bottom of my safe. I don't know who made them, but they were much nicer than I expected them to be. I have a few boxes of their ammo still hiding in my ammo cabinet too. As far as their leather is concerned, I simply felt other companies made products that served me better, so I did not make the transition to it.

twoguns
 
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