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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello all,

There is some equipment that I used to carry which I have given up.

This is what I carry now:

Taurus 92
spare magazine
mini-maglite
Leatherman
Spyderco clipit knife

This is what I used to carry:

Taurus 92/M19 S&W/cheapo .22 backup (these in any combination)
reloads for any firearm carried
handcuffs
pepper spray
mini-maglite
Leatherman
Spyderco clipit
Cold Steel Master Hunter (at times)

Now, I was in school for law enforcement and I worked with the local LEOs a bit- albeit unofficially. At the place I was in college, if you went into the woods there was an excellent chance of stumbling upon a meth lab so I figured all the hardware was a good precaution (not to mention a few threats on my life).

Back in my hometown I still sometimes carry the fixed blade, but this is for when I'm heading into the woods.

So my question is this: If I added back all the stuff I used to carry, meaning three handguns, OC, and cuffs, and you were to pull me over for a tail light out or whatnot, how would you react?

*Please keep in mind that Indiana allows carry of however many pistols please you and OC can be carried with no permit. I've read nothing about handcuffs period.

At this time I have no reason to add the additional hardware back, but I might in the future.

I guess my question would be concisely put as, "If you had reason to deal with a heavily armed but cooperative individual in the course of your work, how would you deal with him?" I'm also wondering about the 'cuffs... Would you think that the guy was out lookin' for trouble?

Thanks all,

Josh <><
 

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Hello. I think the handcuff part might cause some raise eyebrows if the holder is not in LE. In some states it might very well be unlawful.

Best.
 
G

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I too think the cuffs might raise some questions. I arrested a guy not too long ago with handcuffs because he was following a fellow officers wife around and masturbating in the park. You can use your own imagination for what HE might have used the cuffs for. Of course he said he was a bounty hunter, but you know how they lie. The officer stopping you may have had similar experiences and want to follow up a bit more.

I am still in LE and I don't even carry handcuffs off duty. Don't you know all that weight is bad for your back? :) I have carried some cuffs nmade out of shoestring with a plastic retainer, which would probably go unnoticed if you just have to have some cuffs on you. I know officers who have put theirs to good use off duty, but you could also simply use a piece of 550 cord or a belt. That is, if you can't avoid the problem all together.
 

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Josh, one word about cuffs and/or the infamous CCW badge - NO.

Let's just say you are carrying cuffs and NOT an LEO, and you get into an altercation. The cuffs will be a liability for you when the responding officers arrive. Their first instict (right or wrong) will be that you are a "cop-wannabe", or worse, impersonator. Not a good foundation for an "amiable relationship". This also applies to the official-looking CCW badges on the market. Even if that isn't their first impression, it opens you up to it being alleged by whomever is around - participant or witness.

Then there are all the legal issues that arise if you attempt to cuff someone, and none of them are good for you. That isn't even considering the physical risk you expose yourself to whilst attempting to cuff an "unco-operative" subject.

I can tell you - as can anyone who has worked the field, that cuffing someone is the most dangerous instance of an arrest.
 

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I think you need to begin with the idea of "concealed". In most states all of that stuff could not be carried openly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hello all and thank you for the replies.

The cuffs will stay in the drawer. I've been getting invites to join the Sheriff's Dept. reserves and they will only come out should I decide to be a special deputy. I don't see them coming out for any other reason.

JohnnyC, when I carried all this hardware it was all concealed. The 4" Smith and the cuffs were offset SOB carry, and I would not do that anymore. The .22 was stuffed into my right pocket with the knife and keys taking up the left. I'm a big guy and have several places to conceal. I wear a cover garment year round.

Ok all, the handcuffs will never be worn again unless I'm wearing a badge (and I mean a real one, never had one of those fakes except for when I was a kid playing "The Lone Ranger"). What would you then think of the firepower? Would this be a problem?

Thank you again,

Josh <><
 

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Firepower?

You have a primary - The Beretta OR the Model 19.
Both a little big, but good choices.

The back-up .22 could be replaced with an equally small .25 or .32 for pocket carry.

The Leatherman is utilitarian, and good if you need to fix things. Otherwise, it is redundant to the Spyderco.

Pepper spray for me stays in the car door pocket, as does the mini-mag torch.


I personally carry my gun, spare mag and knife. That's usually it. Of course my substantial key ring is there as an improvised impact weapon if I need one.

My personal philosophy is that my primary weapons are attention, avoidance, de-escalation, and initial reliance on physical intimidation & force. The knife and gun, etc. - my 'back-ups', are there if things 'go south' or are warranted from the beginning.

That 'scale of appropriate force' thing is too well engrained in me.
 
G

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The third handgun should be ditched in favor of a cell phone and the cuffs need to go. Remember that you, when you need a gun are a non-LEO, have a duty to retreat in any situation might require deadly force, so reapproaching to restrain someone will place you in, at best a precarious legal situation, best to retreat (safely) if possible, then be a good witness and get on the phone once you reach good cover at a good distance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
All,

Thank you again.

The .22 and the Smith 19 are gone, sold. I carried three because, before I was working at an auto parts store, I ran security for a cab company in the city in which I took college as well as helping the local LEOs on occasion. There was a combo cell phone/radio in the cab as well as on my person.

I do carry a cell phone these days. There is no service but it will dial 911 just fine.

The only pistol I carry is the Taurus with a reload. I'm thinking about adding a Keltec or something along those lines but money is tight.

I do not intend to go into harm's way. This is the initial reason I ditched the 'cuffs.

I would rather retreat if safe and possible. LEOs don't get paid enough IMO and I wouldn't go proactive for free. I have my own threat assessment system. IMO things go too fast to meet force with slightly greater force (I can't think of the terminology for that right now, dang). Should I not be able to get away and it's not something I can handle with empty hand CQC skills or OC (which I do plan to carry again) then I figure it's become a lethal confrontation.

Again, thank you all. While I want to stay safe I do not want to provoke the local LEOs and you've all been a great help. Though I've sat in local cruisers and they've not bothered to take my pistol, ditto a friend, I figure things would change drastically should I have a lethal force encounter.

Josh <><

- edited for things which had no bearing on the discussion. Josh <><
 
G

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I'm not LE but I'd add atleast a little LED light. They can just sit on your keys but will toss enough light to ID a person outside of H-to-H range. I usually have 2 on me, as well as a surefire in the coat pocket.


Steelheart
 
G

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Gents,

Most of my carry has been during my Marine career. A 1911A1, holster, three mags, double mag pouch. Other than that my Ka-Bar. As an officer I was not issue another weapon. A situation quickly rectified.

For private carry, my SS Commander, three Wilson magazines, Kydex or leather holter, Kydex of leather mag pouches. Also a Spyderco Delica and a Surefire 6P, cell phone.

On duty you can add the issue G22 and all the regular police stuff including OC.

The question comes down to this: "Do you want to be comfortable or comforted? I split the difference when off duty. Enough to be comfortble and comforted. This, of course will change with your situation.

Management wants a "defense in depth", so gives choices for the situation. More to cover litigation concerns, I think, than out of concern for employees.
Remember, you are the one at risk. YOU make the decision. You can sort it out later.

Add to this AWARENESS! Which is a "don't leave home without it" item.

Cuff's? I thought they were for "recreational" use...;-)

Wes
 
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