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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What's the story on bids for a new U.S. military sidearm? I got a forwarded e-mail from a former Marine gunny friend that I've now lost. Is there a DoD link any of you guys have available? I know some Spec Ops units are carrying 1911 .45's or 10MM, but it seems unlikely 1911's would be adopted service-wide, so what are they looking for? Any thoughts on whether the specs they're issuing are for the right gun would also be appreciated.
All the best, David
 

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Hello there gents,

I was perusing the latest "Small Arms Review" magazine at the bookstore newsstand early this week. Seems the U.S. Coast Guard has issued a contract to replace their worn, used 9mm Beretta M9 pistols with a double-action only SIG in .40 S&W to be manufactured in New Hampshire.

Hopefully you can get the magazine where you are at. It would seem the article had input from a small-arms trainer in the Coast Guard who was an ex-Marine. So it looks like a service has switched from 9mm to the law enforcement-favored .40.

--d.
 
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Hello there gents,

I was perusing the latest "Small Arms Review" magazine at the bookstore newsstand early this week. Seems the U.S. Coast Guard has issued a contract to replace their worn, used 9mm Beretta M9 pistols with a double-action only SIG in .40 S&W to be manufactured in New Hampshire.

Hopefully you can get the magazine where you are at. It would seem the article had input from a small-arms trainer in the Coast Guard who was an ex-Marine. So it looks like a service has switched from 9mm to the law enforcement-favored .40.

--d.
Well sort of.......

USCG is part of the Department of Homeland security, and as such is transitioning to their standard issue pistols (The DHS contract is for SIG P229R DAK's, P226R DAK's and P239 DAO's, plus some HK's with the "LEM")

The coast guard has chosen from the DHS list and has picked the P229R DAK as their new Standard.
 

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I just checked the US Government's website for the Combat Pistolhttp://www.fbo.gov/spg/ODA/USSOCOM/SOAL-KB/H92222%2D05%2DR%2D0017/SynopsisP.html, and a new document has appeared - a Draft Solicitation 01, issued 16 Apr 06.

From what I can see, not much has changed since BrokenArrow posted on the 10 Mar 06 document, i.e. .45 ACP, max quantity is down to 50,000 pistols, still NDI, it's called the "Combat Pistol," not the "Joint" Combat pistol. etc.

All you Hoosiers on the board, take note: Looks like testing will be at the Navy weapons center in Crane, Indiana. The bidders are still required to pony up 24 pistols and associated gear for testing.

I can't tell if the technical spec has changed because I can't find a copy of the current one, dated 15 Dec 05, referenced in the solicitation. So don't know if single-action pistols are back in the running or not. I might email the contract specialist later, but right now it is past my bedtime.

elb
 
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While the .45 ACP JCP/CP has been bouncing around the DoD has bought plenty more 9mms: 5000 Rugers, 5000 SIGs, 70,000 S&Ws, 23,000 Berettas w options on up to 70,000 more M9s and up to 14,000,000 (yep, million) more M9 mags... a lot of those went to our allies, not our troops.
 

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FYI, the current edition of The American Rifleman (hit my mailbox yesterday) has an interesting article on the current project status. Author Wiley Clapp even discusses what some of the major manufactures (Beretta, Sig, Glock, Taurus, SA, S&W, FN, Para, H&K) may submit for consideration. Interesting........

Regards,
 
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I just finished the "American Rifleman" article on the new .45 or perhaps the procurement process to find the new .45 service pistol. I find it ironic that the the requrements for the new pistol rule out the venerable 1911, which is the hands down favorite of special operations troops in the field today. Will these bozos ever learn?
 

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When I compared the XD to the 1911, I got this:

XD45acp with 13rds 30 oz + 9.8 oz = 39.8 oz

SA 1911 with 5 rds 36 oz + 3.78 oz = 39.78 oz

Sure, you could get more rounds in a 1911 magazine, but then the weight goes up. We all love our 1911's but times have changed. The XD also eliminates the cocked and locked carry that a lot of us didn't use back in our military days (due to worn out pistols, old posts elsewhere). This will be interesting to watch. Hope my "Rifleman" is in the mail today.

Just my thoughts.
og
 

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Good friend is a retired Major General and now a consultant to arms companies. In his opinion the contract might not exclude the 1911 even though it appears to on the surface (he is also a lawyer so I guess he sees things in the language that I do not).

Had this interesting conversation with a senior officer the other day about the same subject.

He said, well we cannot have a weapon in the military that is cocked no matter if it has a safety or not. I asked him what was that slung across his chest?

Well, its an M4

And what condition is it in, since it is loaded. Duh :-/

I have a Springfield XD. Sort of neat. It is carried "Cocked and Unlocked" since the stricker rests at full cock. Unless you carry it empty that is the only way you can carry it.

At least it has a grip safety so, unlike a Glock, if I take care to loosen my grip drastically when holstering I will not shoot myself in the leg if some foreign object gets inside the trigger guard as I have seen happen with DA autos and revolvers.

I'd like it a lot better with a thumb safety so I could carry it "locked".

Actually I would not worry too much about the 1911 going away for military folks who really have a use for a sidearm (rather than as a badge of rank). Just because the military purchases a new firearm does not mean the others become instanlty unavailable except to some units which so specify. There are still several thousand old ones in service today and there are also several new commercial guns being purchased as we speak (and to be fair there are also other designs commercially purchased for some units - Glocks, Rugers and Sigs to name just a few).

Witness that M-14s and 1911s and M79 grenade launchers are in big demand in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Onward,
Jim
 

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That "foreign object" that ends up in the holster is usually called a "finger" ;) I normally train that when I reholster I take my finger off the trigger and I put my thumb on top of the hammer. (Not possible with many guns, glock, xd, etc.." I then use my thumb to push the weapon down into the holster preventing the hammer from coming back and shooting myself in the butt. On most double action guns you don't have enough leverage to easily overcome thumb pressure on the hammer. I know its off topic but I like to spread what little good advice I have.
 
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The .45 CP is a pistol for SOCOM, not everybody.

The projected final RFP of 31 Jul 06 came and went.

Draft RFP specs still said DA/SA or DAO, no manual safety.

As of 04 Aug 06 the .45 CP requirement is "in review".

The new projected RFP is on/about 31 Oct 06.

May buy more, less, or none. May go back to a JCP for everybody or just go away. We will have to wait and see.
 
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From the "outside looking in" it either sounds like they don't know what they want, except a 45, and/or too many "chefs in the kitchen" or trying to find one handgun to do everything. If it's one handgun to satisfy everyone and every need...good luck.

Not that you want 10 different handguns to stock and service, but I can't see the harm in 2 or 3 "styles" that best fit their needs.
Same caliber would be a big plus IMO.
 

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Um, the proposed contract has been downsized from all arms to Spec Ops only, and the proposed numbers to be purchased has dropped to about 1/10th of the original.

In a way, you are right. Too many cooks and no agreement amongst them.
 

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Hi there,

Here is a full listing of the notice:


General Information


Document Type: Modification to a Previous Notice
Solicitation Number: H92222-05-R-0017
Posted Date: Sep 05, 2006
Original Response Date: Nov 29, 2005
Current Response Date: Nov 29, 2005
Original Archive Date:
Current Archive Date:
Classification Code: 10 -- Weapons
Naics Code: 332994 -- Small Arms Manufacturing

Contracting Office Address
Other Defense Agencies, U.S. Special Operations Command, Headquarters Procurement Division, 7701 Tampa Point Blvd, MacDill AFB, FL, 33621-5323
Description
This notification is to inform Industry the Combat Pistol requirement is postponed indefinately. USSOCOM will no longer issue a Request for Proposal. Original Point of Contact
Tina Lopez, Contract Specialist, Phone 813 828 7063, Fax 813 828 7504, Email [email protected] - Susan Griffin, Contracting Officer, Phone 813-828-7411, Fax 813-828-7504, Email [email protected]
Current Point of Contact
John Pfender, Contract Specialist, Phone 812-854-5198, Fax 812-854-5095, Email [email protected] - Tina Lopez, Contract Specialist, Phone 813 828 7063, Fax 813 828 7504, Email [email protected]
It is no more.

Chris
 

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Chris and others...

Altho the RFP cited above is dead, I would not entirely discount a new pistol RFP coming out some time in the future. This one apparently got thrashed to death, by as 45auto said, too many cooks, combined with some of the cooks running out of the kitchen at the last minute. However, I got an interesting email from defensive firearms instructor John Farnam (he regularly updates his students via email with his firearms/defense related findings). He says he's been told Glock is looking to move some manufacturing to the US, and this is seen as anticipation of large US orders for .45 pistols that have to be manufactured entirely in the US. They are working on a slimmer-grip (but still doublestack) version of the Glock 21, to be called the Glock SF45, which will debut at the SHOT show in 2007.

Assuming this is all correct, this would imply somebody is going to re-start the new pistol effort(I think John said it is the marines), and given the hoops one has to go through to get to the actual source selection, Glock thinks is has enough time to spin up the new pistol and get manufacturing in place.

Be fun to see how if this pans out.

elb
 
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A big Glock would be a much better choice for people who can't shoot. Our Military has no ammo for practice at this point in time as we have finally shot up the WWII ammo that we used in Korea, and subsequent wars. 1911's require some knowledge and skill, hence they would not be the weapon the Military of Today would chose. They don't even have a clue about the war we are fighting and it will not be won with pistols.
This is a new type of war, and most Americans just don't get it. Everything on the USS Princeton was army surplus, even the eggs! The Jet aircraft were new, but the rest of the planes were from WWII. The pistols I took care of were WWII, both the 1911's and the 38 M&P's. Most of the men were army and navy surplus, too, as we had a great many reserves on board.
Our Armed Force Commanders do not care about pistols. There is very little hand to hand fighting in this kind of war, and whatever they choose will be a political decision, not a battlefield one.
Captain Eagle:"A pistol is for unexpected criminal attack" and a badge of authority. Period.
 

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Hello. Though interesting, please let's keep our responses focused only on actual gun aspects relating to the thread. We're trying to do things here in that narrow approach to try and avoid problems being experienced on other boards.

I sure appreciate it.

Best.
 
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