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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently read a news report where a hoodlum standing 6'4" and weighing 295 lbs beat up an average guy in a pizza parlor because the average guy complained when the big guy's girlfriend cut in line.

This gave me pause because I'm only 5'6" and weigh about 175. What chance would I have against a guy that size? The answer, of course, is none at all. I carry a CCW, but it's either a S&W 642 (.38 Spl) or a Kahr PM9 (9mm.) Would either of those cartridges stop a guy weighing 295 before he beat me to a pulp? I doubt it. So, I'm looking for CCWs in .45 ACP. This poses several problems: I live in Texas and it's too hot to wear a jacket most of the year, I'm too thick around the middle to hide a gun IWB under a shirt, and I'm not sure there's any .45 ACP that will fit in a pants pocket. I suppose a fanny pack would be a possibility, but sometimes I dress in a way that would make a fanny pack inappropriate.

Any suggestions?

Crash
 

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Stick with your 9MM or the 38.
Either will stop ther guy you describe.
It's almost all in the shot placement not the size of the round.
If you really want a .45 get a Springer Mil-Spec and stick it in a IWB with a large shirt over it.

AFS
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Stick with your 9MM or the 38.
Either will stop ther guy you describe.
It's almost all in the shot placement not the size of the round.
If you really want a .45 get a Springer Mil-Spec and stick it in a IWB with a large shirt over it.

AFS
AFS,

With my ample waist, it would have to be a large shirt indeed! I suppose, if the big guy is right up in my face, putting the S&W or the Kahr in his face and pulling the trigger until he saw the error of his ways would be an option.

Crash
 

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Two things: 1) stick to an easily concealable gun. A .38 Snub or a Kahr 9mm/.40 would be at the top of the list. Shot placement, contact range = face. 2) Living in TX western wear is almost universally appropriate. Why not wear a cotton/denim western style vest (Ala something from Sheplers???) as a cover garment? Not too hot, not too obvious.
 

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Mr. Crash,

I agree with AFS. With any of the many good hollow point loads out there, shot placement is the real key. I know you also want to have confidence if what you are carrying for self-defense too.

Just a couple of thoughts. I don't know what round you are carrying in your J-frame. My folks hired a retired HP White ballistician when he got bored with retirement. He was our first real "ammo expert", and a large part of his job was to evaluate and select the rounds we were authorized to carry for duty use.

For our Smith J-frames he selected the Federal 129 JHP +P, as it was designed to expand reliably from a J-frame lenght barrel. I notice several other companies, like Speer for example, now offer other rounds specifically designed to reliably expand from J-frame sized revolvers. Most of these round were not around back then when Jim was looking for the best duty round for us in our J-frames. So just evaluate your choice of .38 spc rounds to make sure you are carrying a reliable load. But again, there are many good hollow points out here now.

If you are seriously concerned now, you could add what we call the "body armor drill" into you range routines. With a semi or 6 shot revolver the drill is 2 shots to the chest, one shot to the head - repeated for a total of 6 rounds. With a J-frame the drill is 2-1, 1-1. As a couple of very sharp members have recently pointed out - the best aiming point is "a saucer shaped area, centerline, level with the armpits".

The only personal advice I can offer about how people will likely react in potential deadly force situations is - no two people are alike, so there are no hard fast rules. Having said that, it has been my personal experience when I have been forced to draw and aim at someone, the vast majority of folks have decided "this is not a good idea, I am about to get shot, time to comply". Of course there are exceptions to this rule. Someone extremely angry, drunk, or on drugs may not process that situation in the same way. Some drugs can also make someone think they are Superman as well. Again, no hard fast rules, except I don't think there are any.

But my point is for many folks the sight of a weapon may be all the persuasion they need. Again, I have never drawn and aimed my weapon at someone I was not prepared to shoot if necessary, and will never change that philosophy. It is simply a tool, not a magic wand.

Hope my thoughts might help you a little in your decision process now on what you should carry. As AFS stated, I see nothing wrong with your current weapons - but then we are not the ones totting them, you are. Good luck.

twoguns
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Mr. Crash,

I agree with AFS. With any of the many good hollow point loads out there, shot placement is the real key. I know you also want to have confidence if what you are carrying for self-defense too.

Just a couple of thoughts. I don't know what round you are carrying in your J-frame. My folks hired a retired HP White ballistician when he got bored with retirement. He was our first real "ammo expert", and a large part of his job was to evaluate and select the rounds we were authorized to carry for duty use.

For our Smith J-frames he selected the Federal 129 JHP +P, as it was designed to expand reliably from a J-frame lenght barrel. I notice several other companies, like Speer for example, now offer other rounds specifically designed to reliably expand from J-frame sized revolvers. Most of these round were not around back then when Jim was looking for the best duty round for us in our J-frames. So just evaluate your choice of .38 spc rounds to make sure you are carrying a reliable load. But again, there are many good hollow points out here now.

If you are seriously concerned now, you could add what we call the "body armor drill" into you range routines. With a semi or 6 shot revolver the drill is 2 shots to the chest, one shot to the head - repeated for a total of 6 rounds. With a J-frame the drill is 2-1, 1-1. As a couple of very sharp members have recently pointed out - the best aiming point is "a saucer shaped area, centerline, level with the armpits".

The only personal advice I can offer about how people will likely react in potential deadly force situations is - no two people are alike, so there are no hard fast rules. Having said that, it has been my personal experience when I have been forced to draw and aim at someone, the vast majority of folks have decided "this is not a good idea, I am about to get shot, time to comply". Of course there are exceptions to this rule. Someone extremely angry, drunk, or on drugs may not process that situation in the same way. Some drugs can also make someone think they are Superman as well. Again, no hard fast rules, except I don't think there are any.

But my point is for many folks the sight of a weapon may be all the persuasion they need. Again, I have never drawn and aimed my weapon at someone I was not prepared to shoot if necessary, and will never change that philosophy. It is simply a tool, not a magic wand.

Hope my thoughts might help you a little in your decision process now on what you should carry. As AFS stated, I see nothing wrong with your current weapons - but then we are not the ones totting them, you are. Good luck.

twoguns
twoguns,

Thanks for all the good advice--I really appreciate it. I carry either Speer 135 gr +P GD or Corbon 110 gr +P DPX in my 642 and Speer 124 gr +P GD in my PM9.

Crash
 
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Ive got a 1973 P-64 which shoots the 9X18 makarov round and is real potent, accurate to where I have hit paper at 50 yards and deadly at 25, extremely reliable, slides in my fanny pack next to my wallet of the same color, and cost me $150! In case you are not familiar with this weapon, it is similar to a 380 PPK (James Bond fame) but with more power. In my truck I carry a CZ-52. Enough said there. Be familiar with the characteristics of any gun you decide to carry. In a reactive mode, you may not have time to think.
 

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Gents,

I agree with twoguns(again). The only advice I can give is each encounter will be different and embody different dymanics, as well.
A rational fella may think "I better comply", but somebody amped up on drugs, alcohol, and adrenelin may not even consider you a threat. They generally become bullet sponges at that point.
The best advice I can give is that any situation can go south in a hurry. Be prepared to deal with it. Remember, detaching may not be macho, but we've buried a lot of good folk due to "tombstone courage".
Have a plan (and backups), get training AND train, and be prepared.
Why am I trying to give advice in a paragraph or two when tomes have been written on the issue...

Semper Fi,

Wes
 

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Wapari I bought a P-64 last month for $179.95. Extremely reliable! I c.c.w. with it now. For 5 years I have carried a 5" 1911 & it's nice & handy to carry my 1968 polish P-64.Check out p64.proboards67.com ..........80-80
 
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I had a similar realization, I was carrying a J frame .38, Till I started looking at snubnose balistic data wich left me rather unimpressed. I also figured if I ever needed a gun I would really really really need a gun. Kinda seamed odd I was trusting my life to a gun I wouldnt consider using in an IDPA match. Not so much caliber but in platform I feel like if I am going to carry I am going to carry an effective platform I can shoot accurately, quickly both first and follow shots and more ammo onboard is better than less. I cant ever remember a gunfight report where too much ammo was a problem. I really think the Hipower is an ideal weapon. But there are plenty of others.
 
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