[rcs2]

I was looking at the Magtech First Defense rounds (first time I have heard of them) and they sure look like a twin sister of the Corbon DPX. I believe the bullet weight is less but they are 100% solid copper.

"Trust the bullet that delivers deep penetration and devastating expansion..." Sure sounds like the same comments made by Corbon about the DPX. I understand these are somewhat more cost effective than the Corbon DPX.

Any comments regarding the above would be appreciated.

 

[Guest]

I haven't seen any tests of this ammo. In general I like Magtech. Their Gold SD ammo has gotten good marks from one tester. Thing that bothers me about the First Defensse is the weight. 95 grains (isn't that what it is?) is pretty light.

Max

 

[rcs2]

Yes you are right it is a lighter bullet. Even lighter than Corbon DPX. I found the results of test below on a wed site and seems to do pretty good compared to the DPX.

Firearm: Ruger P89
Barrel Length: 4.5"
Caliber: 9MM Luger
Bullet Diameter: 0.355"
Bullet Weight: 115 grains
Make: Cor-Bon DPX +P
Velocity: 1299 FPS
Recovered Bullet Diameter: 0.585"
Recovered Bullet Weight: 115 grains
Distance From Muzzle: 20'

Firearm: Ruger P89
Barrel Length: 4.5"
Caliber: 9MM Luger
Bullet Diameter: 0.355"
Bullet Weight: 92.6 grains
Make: Magtech SCHP
Velocity: 1314 FPS
Recovered Bullet Diameter: 0.628"
Recovered Bullet Weight: 91.7 grains
Distance From Muzzle: 20'

Firearm: Ruger P89
Barrel Length: 4.5"
Caliber: 9MM Luger
Bullet Diameter: 0.355"
Bullet Weight: 92.6 grains
Make: Magtech SCHP
Velocity: 1311 FPS
Recovered Bullet Diameter: 0.612"
Recovered Bullet Weight: 90.0 grains
Distance From Muzzle: 20'

 

[dtwilly]

Curious as to where you got that data. Was it a wetpack or gelatin test? Any penetration numbers? That's a critical missing piece.

 

[rcs2]

See the link below, Steve uses water jugs and he does many different calibers, etc.

I do not how realistics but the media he uses is for all bullets so at least that is consistent

http://www.stevespages.com/page8f.htm

 

[oldgranpa]

good discussion about Magtech's copper bullet round. It would appear that in 9mm in the waterjug test the round did expand looking like DPX. My only test was in .380acp in some wetpacks where it did nothing but penetrate.
For one thing, the FD cavity has a lot smaller opening than DPX, in .380 at least. Here's a link to a test with a 3.6" barrel Sig P232, which should have produced expansion....
http://www.handgunsandammo.proboards36.com/index.cgi?board=terminal&action=display&thread=1142649407
I couldn't find any DPX at the time to compare but got the same results in a later test where we did have DPX for comparison....
http://www.ktrange.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5183
Notice the smaller cavity on the FD in the ammo picture.
Steve's pages do not show the Magtech copper in a .380 test. So maybe it would expand in water also.
There has always been an argument which is more severe a test, water or wetpaper. Mr Camp does tests in both and maybe he can comment.
IMO, both tests are more severe than gelatin. And plain water would seem to have a better chance of producing expansion than the possible plugging of the JHP cavity with wet paper.
Looks like lots more tests needed to answer this one. But in the meantime, I'm not using any Magtech FirstDefense in .380 caliber, just based on my tests.
I found the .380 Magtech FD at cheaperthandirt if anybody wants to try some.
Cheers,
og

 

[rcs2]

Good links and good information on the .380 caliber. Also your point on the smaller cavity of the Magtech makes sense. I will further evaluate the Magtech in 9mm & .45acp which are the calibers that I use.

I was looking at Magtech FD becuase apparently compared to the DPX they are supposed to be more cost effective.

Also, I think I saw in other sites that apparently the FD was more reliable than DPX in a full spread of the 'petals' whereas DPX apparently had more of the fold over 'petals'

 

[Guest]

Those are Steve's pages, but the old guy doing the tesing is a retired engineer named Carmon. I help him out from time to time.

The FD has more flash than DPX, but not too much (not distracting/blinding). Both expanded great through denim more often than not.

The FD deformed less than DPX w repeated chamberings in 9/40/45.
The petals are thicker, stiffer when expanded, do not fold back as far as often as DPX.

The FD 9mm expanded more than DPX, penetrated less. The 40 FD was pretty much identical to DPX. The 45 FD had some rounds fail to expand past .45 (opened up to a straight wall) but interestingly enough did not over penetrate anyway.

Magtech says in their in-house FBI type testing the FD 9 does 11 inches in bare gel, the 40/45 12 inches. The 9/40/45 all do at least 12 inches through glass, wood, and steel.

The FD 95g 357 Mag penetrated deeper than the Double Tap or Speer 125g 357 Mag GD and expanded almost as much (.59 v .61). Was a lot easier to handle from snubbies too.