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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've kind of been a little antsy about the .25 Beretta as a backup gun. It's dead-bang reliable, but the sights are non-existant, and accuracy is absolutely crucial with that round, since a poor hit, while certainly more damaging than a simple punch or kick, can't really be expected to put a stop to an attacker's aggression. Heck, with a .25, it takes three or four good hits to do that.

Also, I'll be quite plainly honest, and tell you that I've already run into three separate situations where I could not carry the CZ-75, but needed some kind of a gun on me. Guess what I had to bet my life on.

Uncomfortable?

In ways you can only imagine.

See, the problem is that, like it or not, I occasionally run into social situations where, for various reasons I won't go into, pocket or Mexican carry (front crossdraw with or w/o a holster) is the only option. A full-size prints unforgivably in this roll, because I am... less than barrel-chested, we'll say, and my shirt doesn't drape down correctly to hide that long, fat grip.

So, I got to thinking that I'd really like it if I could just get some kind of a .380 in the Walther PPK/Makarov size range, -- just small enough for a large pants pocket, or failing that, Mexican carry. I also wanted a heal magazine release -- either one of these modes of carry has a strong chance of accidentally activating a Browning-Style release.

Here's the kicker, though: I needed it to cost only $200. I don't have a lot of money, right now, and in point of fact, I may sell the .25.

My first instinct was the Bersa .380, but the magazine release is in the wrong spot, and even this bargain gun is too much money for me at the moment. My second instinct was Makarov, but these are not the super-cheap bargains they were five years ago. My third instinct was Kel-Tec, but I couldn't find one anywhere around for under about $250, and I have a strict budget on myself, right now.

Well, I logged on to gunbroker, on the off chance that maybe there was an old, abused Makarov in the $150-200 range. When I punched "Makarov," into the search feature, I got something unexpected: A snoot-load of unissued Polish P-64s in 9x18mm. I know of at least one member here who holds these in high regard, and I figure that even if the reliability he has experienced has been with only FMJs, that's still better than a .25.

I bid on the only one I saw that came with a spare magazine, and I won. The whole affair, including delivery, insurance, and FFL transfer fee, is only going to cost me $195, total.

I think I'll breathe a little easier with that thing playing second fiddle to the CZ, and easier still when it's running point.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hi CP:
I believe Cheaper Than Dirt sells that round in Glaser Safety Slugs which might solve feeding problems while getting some expansion. I've never used this type of ammo but some experienced shooters at my pistol range use safety slugs for their carry ammo and have a lot of confidence in them.. Sure beats a .25.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
CP,

A fine choice I'd say. My P64 never jams with ball. I have some Silver Bear JHP that has jammed. The easy solution is to park a JHP in the tube and then fill the magazine with FMJ. That will be a far cry better than the .25ACP, and perhaps a tad slimmer to boot. It tends to disappear in a pocket. It is an attractive unit to my eye.

Bruce
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I was thinking I'd just polish the living daylights out the feed ramp and breech face, and then hope for the best.
 

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[quote chubbypigon
I know of at least one member here who holds these in high regard, and I figure that even if the reliability he has experienced has been with only FMJs, that's still better than a .25.[/quote]

chubbypigeon,

Congrats on getting a good deal on that P-64, I think they make a excellent conceal carry pistol. I do hold the P-64 in high regard, I have 3 of them now, did have 5, sold one to get something else I wanted and gave one to my son-in-law, that also has a CCW. I am a little old fashioned, believe one should use the ammo it was designed for and the P-64 which is not a Makarov but does use the 9x18 round and it was designed to shoot FMJ, however, I have used Hornady's 95gr JHP/XTP and didn't have a jam. At 10 yrds with several different brands of FMJ it shoots POA, much better than my two Makarov's, with 3-4" groups using a standing two hand grip. It has gotten a bad rap for the heavy DA pull, but all of mine after I cleaned them completely and polished the feed ramp and put 4-5 hundred rds through the tube, the DA is fine for me. Several have changed the springs in the P-64 to lessen the DA heavy pull, but I didn't fine it necessary to do that, but to each their own. It is a all steel pistol and when loaded with six rounds weights in at 23 oz, it is one strong little pistol. I pocket carry with a DeSantis Nemisis, [Sig 230/232] and also use a IWB Clipdraw, at the range or on camping trips and such I use the Fobus paddle holster, [model SG-3 for the Sig 230/232].



 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I understand your position on ammunition, but I'm going to try some Hornady XTP. If it works, I'll carry it, but if not, then I'll just go with FMJ.

Where'd you get the aftermarket grips for it? I'd like some extra-slim ones, if I can find them. This thing will need to be concealable in the highest degree possible.
 

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We have a Makarov .380 that has been a little jewel so far. I have shot nothing but ball ammo through it so far but I do plan on trying some hollow points in it. It was made in Hungary. So far it has about 200rds through it without any problems. Good luck with yours.
 

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Not to be picky Baldy, but your gun isn't a Makarov. It's much closer to a PPK. And since it is chambered in .380 there is really no connection.

Looks nice though!


Papabear, Nice pics!
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Baldy's pistol looks like my son's FEG PA-63 that is chambered in 9mm Makarov. Besides that, there is the CZ-82 and the Polish P64. I'd argue that these pistols all share a touch of the Mak's eastern european DNA, and all (including the Mak) were influenced by the Walther PP & PPK to some extent.

http://www.makarov.com/others/index.html

But as SpecialEd points out, only a Mak is a Mak.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I've looked at the P-64's lineage, and as best as I can tell, it's a Walther PPK rechambered for 9x18, and with a heel-mounted magazine release. Think of it as sort of what would happen if a Makarov and a PPK were left alone in a safe.

The Polish claimed it was engineered with no influence from the PPK, but I believe that about as much as I believe that Mikhail Kalashnikov didn't look at the German's STG-44 when he designed the AK-47.

Maybe they did start from the ground up, in both cases, but I'm fairly certain that they went in fairly impressed with the preexisting design.
 

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Where'd you get the aftermarket grips for it? I'd like some extra-slim ones, if I can find them. This thing will need to be concealable in the highest degree possible.
chubbypigeon,

The two bottom photo's in my post above are resin grips that a guy on the unofficial P-64 resource board use to make, however, he doesn't make them any more but says he might again, if and when he does I'll let you know.

The top photo, is a set of wood grips [Checkered Red Wattle] made my a gentleman in Budapest, Hungary by the name of Dennis. He uses a CNC process and all the grips I have from him fit perfect as have many many grips he has made for guys on the "unofficial P-64 Resource board". I know he makes grips for the CZ52, PA-63, P-64 and the BHP and I believe for the commercial CZ offerings. Here is his web sit:........... http://dnmars.43i.net/?content=Polish%20P-64

His prices include shipping [oooops, I just checked and he now charges $5 for shipping and handling], but IMO his prices are very fair especially considering that they come from Hungary. If you get a set of them you won't be sorry.

Papabear
 

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We have a Makarov .380 that has been a little jewel so far. I have shot nothing but ball ammo through it so far but I do plan on trying some hollow points in it. It was made in Hungary. So far it has about 200rds through it without any problems. Good luck with yours.

baldy,

Nice looking PA-63 and the photo is nice too, thanks for sharing.....


Papabear
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Chubby,

All this talk about P64s caused me a climb downstairs to the safe. I put my beloved S&W M37 in, loaded up the P64, stuck it in a new Uncle Mike's pocket holster and slid the whole shebang into my right front pocket.

I really like the large tactile round-in-chamber indicator, snag-free hammer, and smooth finish. It is a lot easier to pull out of a pocket than the M37.

Thanks to Chubbypigeon and Papabear for reuniting me with an old friend!

Bruce
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks, Papabear. I think I'm going to ask him about making me a set of grips out of the hardest wood he's got. Normally, I'd go with the plastic factory stocks, but I like the fact that these seem to cover the magazine release. One less snag point during a pocket draw.

I finally got a decent job, so I'll be able to afford them, now.
 

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Papabear,

Thank you for sharing the pictures of your collection of P-64's. The finish condition appears to be "unissued". I'd like to hear where you aquired them from as I may be interested in buying one myself.

Thank you kindly sir,

Chris
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Chris, go have a look at gunbroker. Lots of people are selling them unissued. Apparently, Poland has decided that they will never issue another one, and they're dumping them, NIB.
 

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Live and learn as the FEG-63 we have was sold to us as a Makarov 9x18. Oh me ! Well the gun does work well and I like it. I am thankful to SpecialEd and Fnhpsfs for getting us on the right track.
Thank you gentlemen.

Best Baldy.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well, Papabear, I just sent an email with an order for a set of smooth Wenge stocks to Mr. Marschal. I really wish he'd use something besides paypal, (for reasons I won't discuss on this particular forum) but there's really no other option for that sort of private seller, at the moment, except money orders, which can be woefully tenuous and slow on an international level.
 

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Papabear,

Thank you for sharing the pictures of your collection of P-64's. The finish condition appears to be "unissued". I'd like to hear where you aquired them from as I may be interested in buying one myself.

Thank you kindly sir,

Chris
carolinaman,

Thank you for your kind comments, the three P-64's in the pic's I got from SOG [Southern Ohio Guns] a little over a year ago, price then was $139 with 3 mags, or two @ $129 ea with three mags. I understand now that SOG doesn't list their prices, that you have to go through a dealer. As far as I know they still have a good selection of them but I have not talked to anyone lately about the P-64's from SOG. Just Google to southern ohio guns and and get their info then I guess you'll have to go through a dealer. Mine were in excellent condition, I had five a one time, gave one to my son in law that has a CCW and sold one. They are very accurate for a small pistol, more so than my Bulgie Makarov and I don't own one but have shot the PA-63, it is a alloy pistol and not as accurate for me and much to large for a pocket carry for me. Gunbrokers has the P-64's there and I know that one just went for $125 in the last two or three weeks because I know the gentleman that won that bid. I also got one of my P-64's off Gunbrokers.com for $150 that included 3 mags and a DeSantis Nemises pocket holster, so they are out there you just gotta find 'em.

Best,

papabear
 

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Well, Papabear, I just sent an email with an order for a set of smooth Wenge stocks to Mr. Marschal. I really wish he'd use something besides paypal, (for reasons I won't discuss on this particular forum) but there's really no other option for that sort of private seller, at the moment, except money orders, which can be woefully tenuous and slow on an international level.
chubbypigeon,

I understand about paypal, but under the circumstances with him being located across the pond it the best way to go. I had very good response time for him and he does excellent work and backs it up, I have a few sets from him and I had a problem with one of them and he sent another set at "no charge" even though I had not ask for another set, he is a great guy to deal with.

Please let me know how your Wenge stocks fit and a pic would be nice too. I also have a set of the Smooth Red Wattle stocks for one of my Bulgie Makarov's, I really like the feel of those stocks too. On his web site is a pic of my Bulgie Makarov with the smooth red wattle stocks and a pic of my checkered red wattle stocks for one of my P-64's. I really like his work, fit and finish are great.

Best,

papabeara
 
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