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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't know if this thread belongs here or not. Move it as you see fit.....To those of you who conceal carry full-sized weapons. e.g. Glock, Beretta, Smith, 1911s, is it customary to carry 2 extra mags on your off side( assuming you are wearing a belt holster) or are there those who simply favor one extra mag and maybe a flashlight on the off side? I've recently started carrying a 9mm Hi-Power in a DeSantis belt holster. I want to carry an extra mag, but does anyone feel that a person should carry two extra mags? I don't mean for this to be anti-gun fodder. The last thing I want is for someone to dictate to me how many rounds I can carry on my person. Can a person be reasonably well armed with 26 rounds of 147gr Golden Saber, or should I go all out with the 39 rounds? I know that many of the responses to this will be something along the lines of..." Only you can decide that", "Do what you feel comfortable with", ad nauseum. Maybe I shouldn't have even asked this question to begin with. What I want to know is, " Can I get by with one extra mag for the Hi-Power in today's world?"

Matt
 

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Howdy Mr. Matt,

I will start by explaining my normal off duty carry items. One full sized pistol, either a P226 or 75B, with two spare mags in a very compact El Paso double mag pouch, two pocket knives (one in each front pocket), a Kahr K40 in an ankle holster, a Sure-Fire, and a set of cuffs. If I am heading up to a large city in the area which is experiencing serious gang problems, I will sometimes wear another full size pistol in a shoulder rig with two spare mags (assuming the weather is reasonable).

If you could see my tactical gun belt you would quickly realize I believe in being magazine "rich". I know statistically the number of rounds exchanged is low, but Mr. Murphy seems to enjoy making me the exception to most rules as well. Since my first shooting I simply believe too many rounds is much like too much money - sort of really hard for me to define.

Can you get by with a HP with one extra mag - maybe, probably. I know some folks are quite happy carrying only a handgun, with no spare rounds. If that is what they prefer, that is their decision.

But personally, I vote for two spare mags minimum for my primary, along with my back-up. But yes sir, you are correct - you need to do what you feel is best for you. That is why I carry the equipment that I do - it works best for me.

twoguns
 

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You'll now get a peek inside my "paranoia," Mr. Sanford


Strong side carry: Desantis belt scabbard holding a Taurus 92 with 16 rounds. Below that, in cargo pants (which I've fallen in love with) there is a digital camera, a Sony DSC-30 if it matters. Strong side waist pocket is used for carrying car keys and change, as well as my main fighting knife, a Spyderco folder that's no longer made.

In my weak side pocket I carry a snubby or a PPK clone (likely the .38 snub these days as I just like it better). Weak side belt has, from front to back, a Leatherman, a Mini-Mag, then two magazines.

When I go out I have 51 rounds of ammo on me. Most of it is now 9mm 124gr +P Bonded GS, but five are Magtech 125gr +P in the snubby. I do need to start carrying a speed strip or a speedloader for the snub.

If I'm going into what could be a dangerous area, I add that third gun. It goes into my left pocket, fighting knife goes down with the camera, and keys and change go into a jacket pocket.

I bought an S&W belt holster with the snubby. I am currently converting the thumb break to be ambidextrous, but last time I wore it exclusively, I couldn't feel the gun on my belt. As I need to feel one to know it's there, I went back to my old habits.

As for the magazines, no, you're not paranoid. I feel two spare magazines are usually minimum. Like Mr. Paul says, Murphy has not been kind to him, and Murphy's never been kind to me either. I don't necessarily feel I'll need all the ammo I'm carrying. I am well aware, however, that I may need to rip a magazine out of the gun to clear a malfunction, thereby damaging the lips, and will need fresh. As well, the gun itself will "probably" break, and I'll then need the backup.

When and if I decide to eventually begin carrying a 1911 (which I first have to aquire and customize), I will still carry two magazines. I *think* this'll be enough.

So, short answer: Magazines get damaged by people who are fighting for their lives because they get fumble fingered. It's a good idea to have two backup magazines for this reason, if not for the firepower.

Josh <><
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks Josh. That has helped me a great deal. I can see now that it is not paranoid to carry 2 extra mags. I had not factored in Murphy's contributions to life. Thanks for responding in such detailed fashion.

Matt
 

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msanford,

Twoguns and I banter back and forth about this very subject. It used to be that a revolver and a speedloader were more than enough, but now the scenario's are changing. More rounds are bing fired and there may be multiple assailants. Read that as gang-bangers, etc.
I recently had a situation with four possible opponents and was carrying my Commander and one spare magazine. At that point hi-caps and multiple mags were looking pretty good. If that would have occured I probably would have run out of time before ammo...
Luckily, their leader saw I was ready and stood down and backed away. I reported the incident, but nothing came of it.

Wes
(Oneguntwomagazinesandaknife)
 

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I usually carry one gun with one reload on my person, with an extra mag or speedloader in the console of the car or my attache`. Sometimes it stays in the car.

I carry a nice light pocketknife for utility chores. I have a PhotonII mini light on the keychain. I carry two keyrings, with the important ones (house, car door) on both. Cellphone.

And I'm NEVER without a serious belt knife. Most of the time its carried strongside hip, as it is my first choice in weapons at close quarters.

If I was heading into a known or likely fight I'd be carrying every doggone mag I owned. I'd also be carrying a battle rifle, and wishing for a Mama-Deuce.

Its all about risk assessment. I stay aware of who and what is around me, I take the long way around, and I'm not being paid to take risks. No one is _depending_ on me for their survival, either financially or physically.

The main reason I go out armed (besides it being a habit started 50 years ago) is that I don't want my last concious thought to be: "now THAT was really stupid".



Regards,

Pat
 
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If I had my way, I wouldn't leave the house without two CZ-75s, four spare magazines, a CZ-83 in each front pocket, three knives, a sharp stick, a tazer, some oc spray, a garot wire, and three fragmentation grenades.

I usually run out of pockets at the CZ-75, two magazines, and a backup gun, though. Keep a knife on me, too.

Did I mention I would also keep a Winchester Model 70 in .30-06, mounted with a long-eye-relief two-power scope in my truck?

Probably an AK, too.
 

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Just to add a bit of perspective, and not at all being criticial of anyone's choice, some time back it occurred to me that it does not matter how many rounds our extra magazines hold, it matters how many you carry.

This is due to the nature in which we use them... once you have fired your weapon it is no longer full. If you gain a position of cover and there is no one still shooting at you (at the moment) nor no one you can detect trying to flank your cover then you probably should top off in order to start the next exchange with a full gun (you never know what is coming next - the first subject you engaged may not be out of the fight or he might have brought a lot of friends with guns you have not identified yet).

It keeps on this way. Obviously you cannot have too many magazines so it is a matter of compromise ...how many can you comfortably carry.

On normal days I carry two spares on my person and one in each belt gun (2 guns), plus at least one hideout and a spare reload for that.

For any duty use (or training for that matter) I usually carry 6 extras plus what is in the gun but that is in additon to a rifle (usually a minimum of 6 extra mags for that too). Beleive it or not, some of my students carry more....one of them used 21, M4 magazines in one engagement! His gear is the most squared away of anyone I have ever seen.

Jim H.
 

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I don't think just in terms of CCW, but preparedness in general. So, like Josh said, here is a peek into my paranoia. See notes at the end.

"What I Carry"

On my person:
Full-size sidearm, one reload, back-up gun, wallet, comb, lockblade knife, currency, coin purse, handkerchief, pen, mechanical pencil, cell phone.

[If the full-size sidearm is a semi-auto, then a magazine (or two, in case of a 1911.) If it is a revolver, then a speed-loader. Ditto for the BUG, except the spare ammo is carried elsewhere -- see below.]

Vest, jacket or small pack:
Keys with LED flashlight and Swiss Army Deluxe Executive, pen, pencil, checkbook, Alinco dual-bander, slide rule, Purex, small 1st aid kit, small Leatherman, eyeglass kit, .22 ammo, reload for BUG, Palm Pilot.

In trunk of car:
Large 1st aid kit, tool kit, rope, CB radio and antenna, roll-up 2 meter J-pole antenna, cig. lighter power cord for HT, walking stick, hunting cap, hatchet, shooting earmuffs, M4gery, 300 rds. 5.56 ammo in can, 400 rds pistol ammo in can (various calibers), wool blanket, Space Blanket, Thermarest, MRE bag, daypack.

In daypack:
Windbreaker, camo mittens, light camo gloves, toboggan, plastic trash bags, silicone-flannel rag, binoculars, map of Nat'l. Forest, 1st aid kit, flashlight, bugspray, GPS, spare batteries, .22 mag. ammo and cylinder, .22 LR ammo, Handi-wipes, Gerber multi-tool, BreakFree, crow call, compass, 100 ft. of Paracord, camo serape.

In MRE bag: 6 MREs, 6 meal heaters, water, 2 ponchos, 2 space blankets, 2 lumisticks, 2 body heaters.

As a ham radio operator, we can be called up at any time. The idea is to be able to support yourself in virtually any situation for at least 3 days. That was my primary goal, esp. for the trunk supplies. Items carried on person and in vest/jacket/small pack are daily things that come in handy all the time.

Firearms-related stuff -- well, I'm singing to the choir here. The ammo can of pistol ammo in the trunk contains 50 rounds for every handgun caliber I own, so that should I ever want or need more, it will be handy.

All trunk supplies, such as ammo and MREs, are rotated from time to time to ensure freshness. Trunks are hot places.

The small first aid kit that I carry all the time is an empty Altoids tin, filled with such things as bandages, a "one-serving" packet of Neosporin, Pepto-Bismol tablets, Excedrin, sinus meds, and a foil-packeted Handi-Wipe. All of this stuff comes in handy all the time. A friend of mine like it so well that he made one up for his buddy in Afghanistan, adding such stuff as a P-38 can opener, and it was so popular that all the guys in the unit wanted one, too, so now a local church is making them for distribution. "From tiny acorns, might oaks may grow."

The M4gery was added as a response to the Texas courthouse shooting of a few years ago, when the guy went berserk with an AK and shot his wife, son, and some others. An armed citizen responded with a 1911 but as the bad guy was wearing body armor, he did not incapacitate him. I expect I will go the rest of my life without such an occurrence taking place, but would not want to be caught lacking if it does, and it was an easy fix just to add the smaller AR into the trunk gear.

Now, is that all nuts or what? There is a Walter Mitty side to it I guess. I don't daydream about survival scenarios or anything. Mainly, we have hurricanes here in coastal NC, and having been caught unprepared for my first one, the rest has been added on as experience dictated. If none of it is ever used, I will be just as happy. But like having insurance, a fire extinguisher in the kitchen, a jack and spare tire in the trunk, or a CCW weapon for that matter, it gives me some peace of mind to know that I have anticipated what I can anticipate.
 

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As a non-LEO, I used to carry a single back-up magazine, but now I carry two. The point is well-taken about banging up a mag and making it non-functional. (I'm talking about a 1911, and WC 8-round magazines loaded to seven, so 22 rounds total. If and when I start carrying a P226, we'd be talking 37 rounds total.) The fallback gun is a revolver, in my vehicle. These other guys go out loaded for bear, of course, but the rule of thumb, IMHO, is: better to have what you don't need than to need what you don't have.
Respectfully
 

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Howdy folks,

Just a suggestion to think about. At one point I worked for an agency that had sort of an airborne SWAT team, and I was normally the team leader. I would watch other members carrying extra equipment out with them to the helicopter, then leave it sitting in their helmet bag once we had deployed. By comparison, all of my spare magazines, secondary full sized pistol, and even my back-up gun were on me somewhere. Yep my tactical vest was heavier than a lot of the other ones, but the point is I had what I might need on me when we deployed.

I kept trying to help folks understand that carrying out spare magazines or extra weapons did them no good if they left them on the helicopter rather than having them on them. My point was finally driven home clearly one night when our helicopter had to take off to avoid being shot up, when the shooting started. One of the guys went through his two spare mags, and was mumbling about his extra pistol and mags being on the helicopter. He hunkered down beside me as I continued to return fire. I finally took pity on him and handed him my spare pistol and mags.

I don't mean this in a negative way at all. I am just trying to help others learn from my experiences. Spare magazines, spare weapons, spare anything left in a briefcase in your vehicle, or in your glove box of your vehicle, or under the front seat or in the trunk - only you can decide how much good they might really do you. If you are faced with a situation will you be able to get back to your vehicle to retrieve them? Maybe, maybe not.

But spare items in a vehicle remind me a lot of spare mags and spare pistols, left in helmet bags sitting in a helicopter that had to take off suddenly. My philosophy is basically, if I do not have it on me, I might as well assume I will not have it should it be needed. Mr. Murphy just seems to enjoy challenging me like that.

I rigged up something that allowed me to carry two spare magazines in something akin to an ankle holster rig on my empty ankle. That is one suggestion to consider, rather than having spare mags in your glove box, briefcase, center console, or under you front seat. If a backup will fit in an ankle holster, that is another suggestion I would offer folks to consider as well.

Again, my comments are simply intended to give you things to consider and perhaps modfiy if they make sense for you. Only you can decide what will work best for you. But personally if I have an item, it is on me somewhere. Otherwise I don't consider that I have it with me, as my odds favor I will not be able to get to it when it is needed.

Shoot well and shoot often.

twoguns
 

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You know, a comment was made on, of all shows, "The X-Files" about this subject.

The character Moulder was becoming infamous for losing his primary weapon. He would then have to make do with whatever was available, usually getting the crap beat out of him in the process.

Then during one episode I watched, IIRC, he was about to be shot with his own gun when he pulled a subcompact from an ankle holster, shot the guy, and quipped, "I got tired of losing my gun."

I never really did watch much of that show up until then. But I do try to catch it now and I've noticed other realistic things: The first season has them with what I believe to be S&W 10mm pistols. After the real life FBI switched, it had those fictional agents carrying Sigs. I've even seen a reload done on the show.

I'm not suggesting that any television show is a training tool, but I thought it was interesting and at least halfway pertinent to this discussion.

I mean, it illustrates a guy who's relatively weak physically getting the crap kicked outta' him after he loses his advantage, his sidearm. Now who can't relate to that?

Josh <><
 

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I'm way out of line on this thread. I carry the handgun loaded to capacity. That is all. Mostly I carry a Model 10 .38 Special. Occasionally I carry a Colt Model 1911. When nothing else will hide well a KelTec P3AT stands in.
 
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One gun with no reloads is still better than no gun at all. The bad guys don't know how many rounds you've got strapped. And a rifle in the trunk is better than a rifle in the gun safe. Unless your car is stolen. That M4 in the trunk would really piss off the local PD when you reported the car stolen, and rightfully so.

But, more important than loading yourself up with a bunch of ammo and grenade launchers is understanding how to implement whatever it is that you are carrying. If I only have six shots on hand I need to be prepared to end a conflict within six shots. Even if that means just getting the bad guy's head down with a couple shots then running away. Don't put so much emphasis on the number or rounds or magazines that you carry that you forget that for all those bullets to be usefull you have to get the rounds on target and you have to be alive to fire those rounds.

I don't think anyone on this forum believes that more magazines will make them better shots or bulletproof, or anything like that, but I think it's easy to become overconfident if you see extra magazines and rifles and shotguns as more "protection." Just a caution. End of rant.

Getting back to the subject of the original poster, yes, I think you can "get by" with one spare hi-cap magazine. Just be prepared because magazines can be lost or destroyed or just flake-out and then you go from having two magazines to having just the one in the gun. Many people have listed legitimate reasons why having more magazines is better, though. When I carry my USP45 I only carry one spare magazine. If I'm carrying a single-stack I'll carry two magazines. Any firearm I have is backed-up by a tactical folding knife, a Streamlight TL-3, a cell-phone, and 200lbs. of crazy *******. Also, if I could, I would have an M-60 and M-203 grenade launcher loaded with Willie Petes on hand. There is no such thing as being overprepared. This is a fundamental truth.
 

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One gun with no reloads is still better than no gun at all. The bad guys don't know how many rounds you've got strapped. And a rifle in the trunk is better than a rifle in the gun safe. Unless your car is stolen. That M4 in the trunk would really piss off the local PD when you reported the car stolen, and rightfully so.
I am not too worried about what will piss of the local PD, and I respectfully disagree with the "rightfully so" comment. Is the M4 in my trunk any worse than the .30-30 in the gunrack, if someone steals my pick-up truck? Or the revolver in my nightstand, if someone burglarizes my house?

Unless it is made illegal to carry a firearm in the trunk because the vehicle might get stolen, then this is a very strange attitude to adopt. Cops have no special dispensation to decide what free citizens should do. I have the utmost respect for the LEOs who have been my friends, hunting companions, lodge brothers, and working colleagues for decades, but what they like and don't like is no more or less a worry of mine than what my dentist, my barber, or my landlady likes. I am not trying to be sarcastic or impolite; I hope you will think this through.
 
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I carry a single stack pistol[7 rounds] and a spare magazine inside a Buck Knife nylon holder that loops through my belt. The spare magazine fits it just right. The Buck Knife is in my toolbox and I have a Kershaw clipped inside my front pocket. My most valuable accessory is my cell phone;never leave without it and keep the batteries charged. I also have the the wilsontactical.com "Cop Tool" in any vehicle I happen to be driving.
 

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I carry a ton of stuff.
But I would probably fill my pockets with something, even if I didn't carry guns. When I was still working as an aircraft mechanic, I would come home with my pockets full of nuts, bolts, wrenches, parts, etc. and have to take them back the next day to work with.

I like "Carpenters jeans". The pockets are a little bigger, plus they have the pliers pocket in the right leg. It holds my cellphone and multi-tool just fine. The Wrangler brand Carpenter jeans have a smaller pliers pocket, so it's a little tight for both. Their belt loops are placed kinda goofy for me also. Lee and Levis brands work better for me.

In addition to the guns, which is probably something for another thread, I carry:

Two spare magazines for my "primary" gun in a Horseshoe Leather belt pouch. Regardless of whether I'm carrying a single stack (1911 or HK P7) or HiCap (HiPower) I carry two spare mags.

I also carry one reload for each backup gun (I usually carry two BUGs).

Light- Surefire 2Z in offside front pocket.

Cellphone- pliers pocket.

Multi-tool (Leatherman Blast- Christmas gift) in pliers pocket.

Folding knife- CRKT M16-13Z in back pocket.

Small Swiss Army Knife, attached with small cord to the remote for house alarm, carried in "watch pocket".

Two key rings. One with basics (car, house), and the other with the rest (including duplicate car and house keys).

Small, 6-ft tape measure. I use that a lot.

Wallet stuffed with junk.

Bunch of change.

Ballpoint pen and mechanical pencil.

Lint.
 

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Hey Barry, how much does it cost to rent the mule to carry all that stuff? :)
C'mon now, be nice!
Now that you mention it though, our Hoosierland pal did relate that he'd needed some back surgery in the recent past...hmm. ;)

My gear might vary from this a little, but basically:

-Firearm, strong side carry, usually IWB.
-Spare mag(s), belt carry weak side. Normally one spare if the gun holds 10+ rounds, two for a single stacker.
-TDI (Ka Bar) defensive knife. Strong side belt carry, immediately behind mag pouch.
-Fox labs pepper spray, right front pocket of jacket/vest/shirt. Figure I'd be more likely to deploy it strong hande, and can't imagine needing it and the firearm simultaneously.
-6v lithium flashlight, weak side. (Normally in front pocket but could be on belt.)
-Folding pocket knife, clipped to strong side front pants pocket. Been toting a sticker that way since my first Spyderco.
-Fire I.D./badge: hanging around neck in carrier on chain ala "Sonny Crockett". ;) (Under my shirt unless needed for my presence at an emergency scene, of course) This rig's gotten me an odd stare or two from fellow professionals, but a few of them actually started doing the same thing later on.
-Lighter, cigars, cigar cutter, keys, change, wallet, cell phone, pen or pencil: Wherever there's room left!
 

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My problem is finding a comfortable place to store all the items that I would like to carry in a day. That being the case, I often find myself carrying a pocket knife, wallet, cellphone (with camera and video), keys, a small extremely bright LED flashlight, and a handgun. Frequently, that handgun is of the 2" .38 snub variety with a spare reload being a speed strip and 6 extra rounds. The snub sometimes is carried in the waistband and sometimes in my pocket. When I carry in the waistband, I have a tendency to include 6 extra rounds in speedloader form (a Safariland Comp II), in addition to the speed strip.

When I carry a larger gun, it's usually a 4" Smith M64 once again, with a speedloader, and a speed strip.

-Rob
 
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