[lelandray]

I think the only option for me is going to be the Glock 20, unless someone can suggest something else. My first pick would be a Colt Delta, but having looked at the prices, I simply can't justify the cost for something that in the end is meant to be strictly practical.

Any advice on handloading, enhancements, etc? I'd certainly go with night sights like on my only other Glock (old M19), and I'd get the trigger worked a mite. Anything else? Feedback and experiences would be helpful.

I'm going to have to sell a couple of pieces to finance this trip into 10mm territory, but I'll be selling the "don't shoot, look purty" guns for something much more useful. (I also have to finance dies and conversion kit for the Dillon 650, reloading components, and extra mags. I like to be thorough when I jump into a new caliber.)

 

[Bob Reed]

Hello Leland,

You might take a look at www.eaacorp.com I don't have any first hand experience with them, but, I knew a guy that bought one for hunting and was pretty happy with his, I was living in another state at that time or I would be happy to get a update for you.

Take Care,
THE SOCKMAN

 

[Guest]

Dan Wesson and Kimber also make a 10mm 1911, as well as S&W's revolver.

Don't know what you've seen the Delta's go for but my local shop lists a new Dan Wesson at $838, 2 new EAA WItnesses at $735 and $414 and a new S&W rev. for $639. There's also a S&W auto 1006, possibly used, for $570. He used to have a couple of Glocks I think for around $600. He does internet sales as well.

Steelheart

 

[briand]

Leland, many of those DEs sit around gathering dust on shelves at $800 and up. There just isn't a large bunch of devotees to the caliber, though we (used to be "they" til late last month!) are pretty zealous. Point is, a fair cash offer on one that's been sitting there for many moons may well be accepted.

 

[Guest]

Gents,

I've forayed into 10mm country and used three platforms. A S&W 1066(Cmdr Length), a Delta Elite, and an original Bren 10.

IMHO, the 10mm is a good news/bad news cartridge. Ballistically, it approaches the .41 Magnum, but falls short and doesn't have the versatility of the .41 Mag. Especially, with heavy Keith type SWC's. In the full power loading the 10mm is a bit nasty to control, where I find the .45 ACP more "soft" shooting. The original Norma 200 gr load was HOT. The Delta Ellite was not made to handle those stresses, The Bren 10 gave funtion problems from the gitgo, and the S&W 1066 cruised right along.

All the 10mm are big! If you're looking for a Colt Cmdr or Officer's in this caliber...to the best of my recollection there a no "small or intermediate" 10's.

In short, the 10mm is a good cartridge, but falls between the Magnums and the .40 S&W. If you download you may as well go with the .40 Short & Weak.

Having said that, if you are looking for a powerful semi-auto, in a man packable size, this is it.

I know of only one shooting with a 10mm. Guy tried to rob a gun store frequented by cops. First mistake. Second mistake was discounting the guy behind the counter(a retired SNCO in the Marines and big time IPSC shooter).

In the ensuing battle the cop didn't get a shot off...the retired Marine drew his custom 10mm and double tapped the perp...at about 10 feet. The result was that the perp was knocked back through the glass entrance door and was dead at the scene.

Wes

 

[lelandray]

Thanks for the input, folks.

To further expand, I'm interested in the 10mm as a defense cartridge, certainly. A revolver is not an option, as I feel I'd be just about as well off with one of the many wheelguns I already own in .357 Magnum or even in .41 Magnum. I'm also interested in getting the most firepower possible, so the double stack auto is the only possible route for me. While a 1911 package would be nice, I have discounted one of those mainly because of the single stack mags.

Because I handload I'll be able to shoot a good bit with reduced power loads, but of course anything I'd carry would be full bore factory ammo, and I've considered a couple of different ones, including the Cor Bon loadings.

I was not aware that EAA made a 10mm, and I'll now certainly look in that direction, but I think I'm going to end up right where I started heading with the Glock 20. The only question there would be whether to go with the standard full size or with the ported model. The very first Glock I ever fired was a 10mm some couple of decades ago, and to be honest, that gun was the reason I was turned off by Glocks for so long. It failed to feed repeatedly, and my friend the owner was told by Glock that it just needed to be shot in. I have no idea what he did with it.

The cost issue really isn't much of an issue. I have several friends who'll order for me and charge little or nothing for doing so, which means I'll pay wholesale plus tax. Current prices locally on the Model 20 are $550 without port and $595 with, according to a friend who priced them for me at a gun show yesterday. I think I can beat those, so the only other expenses would be magazines (those two both still come with 10-round mags), along with the associated stuff needed to start reloading the cartridge.

Again, thanks. I've got some things to be thinking about.

Adding a PS: While I love S&W revolvers, I simply cannot stand their autos. I've never found one I could shoot well on the first shot, and as we know, the first shot is always the most important.

 

[Bob Reed]

Hello Leland,

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but, you might want to take a look at www.actionsbyt.com Mr. Jacobson has a artical on Ported Handguns in Teddy's Comments, it's in the Archives November 2004.

I hope this helps a little more in narrowing it down.

Take Care,
THE SOCKMAN

 

[lelandray]

Thanks, SOCKMAN, that's something I really need to check out. I'm still waffling on the port / no port option, and I need all the help I can get.

 

[Guest]

Dave Di Fabio has some revealing photos of ported versus non-ported Glocks in action at www.ammolab.com. Look in the "muzzle flash" section.

 

[Guest]

Gents,

I'll go out on a limb here...as a trainer I don't normally allow ported weapons. There are several issues of concern. Possible damage to other students or the shooter is just one of them.

Tactically, it's unsound. First, if you shoot in dim light or darkness you run the risk of becoming flash blind...you'll need your night vision.
Second, if fired next to your body you run the very real risk of injuring yourself, badly.
It's also a big indicator of your position.

Believe me, if you never see this type of injury your lucky. Ground meat and bone from a gent that got his hand over the ejection port of a glock and it fired out of battery. You'll sustain the same type of injury from the port(s) on your pistol.

Just say NO, to ports on a defensive handgun.

Wes

 

[lelandray]

Thanks, Wes. Unported it is, since this is to be a working gun and not a target piece.

I'm looking at a cost of $395 + sales tax for a new in the box sample, but I'll go with Tritium sights, which will add a few bucks. Then to 2k or so rounds of brass, caliber conversion, at least two extra mags, bullets, etc.

Yeah, that'll work...

 

[jimhigginbotham]

I have several 10s, including the Glock 20. For me (I stress for me) it is not only twice as hard to control as the Delta Elite, I also have normal sized hands and I can barely reach the trigger, which causes one, on a normal big framed Glock, to push on the side of the frame with the first segment of his trigger finger (the one nearest the hand) in rapid fire.

Were I to "Robarize" it by reducing the girth and then cut "scallops" behind the trigger guard, ala 1911a1, as I do with my G23, I might be able to shoot it at speed.

I understand EAA is starting to exclusively market their rifles through Remington. I am not sure what will happen to their pistols but I think a good bit of my Witness in 10mm and I think CDNN has mags right now.

Lots to consider. I have shot some game with the 10mm...it didn't work any better than the .45 ACP but I have not used stuff like Mike McNett at Double Tap is making...that could be interesting.

Have seen the DWs in .45 and they are good looking guns. One in 10mm might be fine. Kimbers are also worth the extra $$$.

Even if it is hard to find, the 10mm is a very interesting cartridge and one of the few I would consider as an alternative to a .45 (when factoring in power, penetration and controlability). But then the .45 Super is even more versatile (yet even harder to find in factory ammo).

Just food for thought, no real recomendations here.
Jim

 

[jimhigginbotham]

Oh yeah, forgot. I agree with Wes...comps have absolutley no place in self defense. Not every shot can be taken from an extended position and it is even more difficult to fight with one of your eyes blown full of gass and unburned powder than if you can see.

Revolvers are bad enough but at least they don't spit *up*.

Jim

 

[recondoc]

You will be very happy with the 10mm as long as you have the budget or reloading ability for it.
Some information:
Check out www.10mmtalk.com
It is a forum site like this that deals with the 10.
Dan Wesson makes several configurations of their Patriot and Aussie series pistols in 10mm.
Kimber makes a 10mm.
The Glock offers a lot of bang for the buck. I just parted with my G20C. With the Glock platform, you can add a .40S&W barrel, a .357Sig Barrel, a 6" hunting Barrel, and a .22 conversion kit. This allows for a lot of variables. Also, in the hunting arena a J-point red dot sight can be added to turn it into a White Tail/ Hog gun with no gunsmithing involved.
There is a picture somewhere on the net of 10mmMan with his trusty Glock 20 and a very dead American Bison. The caption on it begins with "Just because something can be done doesn't mean it should." It is impressive none the less. I did a search for it but the link I found had all of the pictures removed.
Enjoy the 10,
Doc

 

[Guest]

Actually the photos on the ammolab site I mentioned are of ported versus nonported G20s.

The ported model would be great for July 4th festivities.

 

[recondoc]

The Glock 20 C will definately get you noticed at the range as well. LOUD!!!!!!

Doc

 

[Guest]

I have been enjoying my Glock 20 for 13 years now.

It is a very versatile round, can be loaded for SD or hopped up for hunting. I have carried it off and on for years.

Two deer have fallen victim to 10mm one shot kills, 200grn XTP is one tuff round.

Good Luck!