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Well, here's my situation. I am starting a new business as a used car dealer (ok, ok, I hear it coming...). In the last couple years 2-3 dealers/car salesmen have been shot and killed in the general area. One dealer, great guy, helped many a money-strapped customer get into a car so they can hold down a job, was shot and killed in his office during a robbery. Another was a salesman out for a "test drive". They found him on the freeway, shot and killed, and the car nowhere to be found. I'll (hopefully) be getting my ccw soon. No questions about carrying in the office. I am concerned, however, about being in a car with someone on a test drive. Very close quarters, seat belt probably on. What reccommendations would you have for carrying in this situation where I may need to draw on a bad guy sitting inches from me? Type of holster? Type of draw? Assume no jacket, so concealment is important too. As for the firearm, I think I've settled on a Kahr P9/CW9. Thanks very much for your input.
 

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My favorite is the S&W Model 49 Bodyguard. It's over 40 years old, and was carried on duty for detective and undercover work.

What made it perfect (and still does) is that is was made for firing from inside a jacket or purse. The shroud was there to protect the hammer fall from catching on clothing, lifesavers, keys, chapstick, and all the fuzzies that one finds in ones jacket pocket.

In the true sense it made a great belly gun. And in the situation where you're placing yourself, the most likely scenario is probably getting taken inside the car, while the customer is in control of the car.

You may or may not be given a chance to exit the car without violence. Most car dealers are considered good marks for cash.

If you were wearing a jacket, you keep the gun in your right front jacket pocket. Even strapped in you can free your jacket pocket. Since your right had is free, it can stay in your jacket pocket while your customer drives the car.

Your hand is ready to hold the gun with your trigger finger in register. If the person tries anything, pivot and shoot through your jacket.

Much quicker that trying to "present" the handgun with a IWB while you're belted in.

You need a belly gun here. Something bigger will be unwiedly and slow to draw.

With it in your pocket, your hand on the gun, finger in register, what could be quicker?

Try it in your car, belt in and try to draw from anywhere and see what works for you. Shoot thru some old jackets at the range.

I would look for some type of shrouded hammer .38 w/good loads. Consider it a specialty gun for just such circumstances as these.

You're entering a rough market--so act accordingly and be aware of your surroundings. Good luck.

Regards,

Steve
 

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Another choice is a tuckable crossdraw holster. That should allow you to draw while seated easier.

You could consider also getting a dayplanner type system with a holster built in, since you're a salesman, you could keep notepads and information in it, it would definitely look the part and you could keep it in your lap during the entire car ride.

-Rob
 

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If possible I would wear a light sports jacket but if not practical then look into some of the more attractive and dressy vests (not a photog vest so many are fond of for casual wear). S&A has some.

I am going to assume you let the customer drive and you are in the front passenger seat. That makes a pants pocket draw a difficult thing. I don't have too much trouble drawing from my Alessi DOJ when seated but I usually shift my priority to my cross draw. To be honest, I don't think cross draw will work in your case...you have to be moving your hand in the direction of the perp and your gun is on his side for him to try to prevent or delay the presentation of the weapon.

At the same time, you are probably going to have to use some sort of defensive physical tactic when the perp makes his move (like deflect his weapon arm to keep from being shot or cut, while you are getting your own weapon out).

Lots to think about here. I am not sure I have the answer but I suspect it would be a vest or jacket and a strong side holster or a gun in the right pocket (that is whether you are right handed or left handed in this case).

Intersting.
 

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I use a deep IWB holster in appendix position with my P9 Covert. (Several manufacturers make such holsters for small pistols, but only Pale Horse leather will make a custom one for a Kahr - mine cost $39.) It allows me to push the muzzle of the gun through my pants to pop the gun out of the top of the holster (and my waistband) into my strong hand. When the gun is situated in the holster, it is below the waistband of my pants, and invisible, even without a cover garment (I blouse my shirt slightly to cover the top of the pistol in my waistband, but it's really no more than I would blouse it ordinarily).

I can perform this draw seated. Might be something for you to consider.
 

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mjincp,

Your situation is intriguing. Caveats: I am no martial arts expert, not a car salesman, and have never started a business (but imagine that needs outstrip cash in about every area. And you only asked about carrying at close quarters. But here's some thoughts from the peanut gallery anyway:


- sgphotos suggestions make sense. Snubbies are useful things.
- Soft body armor under the shirt might also be useful?
- Do you really need to accompany someone on a test drive? I realize that it makes it easier for someone to simply drive off on a joy ride or worse... but is the potential for a shootout at close range worth it?
-- Maybe you can copy their driver's license before they go, so you have some kind of info on him in case he doesn't come back?
- I would definitely NOT sit in the front passenger seat if there are two buyers...
- Assuming there is more than one of you in the business, definitely plan out how to respond if you are confronted in the office, or one of you doesn't come back from a test drive in a specificied amount of time, invest in cell phones with integrated GPS, etc,,..

- Oh, and I would practice the draw at close quarters A LOT, with someone observing you specifically for muzzle direction - I think it would be quite easy to shoot myself in the left arm (or worse!) without lots of drill on the presentation. At a recent handgun course, a lot of the students inadvertently crossed their wandering left hands/arms with the muzzle during the draw, and the instructors drilled into us pulling our left arm in and literally slapping our bellies with the left hand as our right went to the gun.

Good luck!

elb
 

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One more thing. When you're in the front seat with your customer, always keep your eyes on his hands.

Someone that's getting ready to pull a gun and is wacked-up, will make several "tells" with his hands. He'll go through the motions of practicing his draw; he'll be jumping around in his seat. If he's right-handed often the gun is on his left side "tucked" between his body and pants (shorts, sweats, baggy clothes) and probably not a holster.
If both hands leave the wheel while driving, it could be to pull up his shirt with his left hand while cross-drawing his "tuckable".

Hands are what hurt you --so always watch their hands.

Hands will give them away most of the time.

Regards,

Steve
 

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This might be a case where a shoulder holster might make some sense. As the driver makes the move for his gun I ssume you would make a reflexive movement with your left hand to impede his action. At the same time your right hand would cross your body and draw your own handgun.

Also, take some Krav Maga classes if available in your area and ask to be taught some unarmed techniques applicable to this particular situation.
 
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