Handguns and Ammunition Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hope this is the proper forum!. I'm checking for a friend in OK City. This is his message to me. Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated. He can press 300lbs. but has nothing from the waste down. He needs 1 hand to steady himself in the chair, so he'll be shooting with one (1) hand. Many Thanks! I'll check back for any replies you might offer:

"I have a question regarding conceal to carry and guns in particular. I had an incident one day in the tunnel between the parking garage at the hospital and the main building. I had a guy come up from behind fairly quick offering to give me a push. It was just me and him. I said no please don't. He said no trouble I don't mind. I said even louder and started pushing harder "Don't come near me"! He stopped coming and said you're not a very grateful person gay. I said I just don't need your help, sorry. He then started coming up toward me again and I'm still huffing up the hill to get around the turn where I'll have a view of the main hospital. As he's catching up he then says "I don't think you can do much about it can you dude"? I carry a couple knives for protection of sorts but I don't want to stop pushing to get to one. I figure when he grabs me I'll grab the knife and go for broke. At that time a doctor walking with a couple ladies appeared from around the turn. I yelled one more time "Don't come near me leave me alone" to the guy behind me and I looked at the people that came around the corner and said this person is trying to assault me. Well at that time the guy turned and made a hasty retreat back down the tunnel toward the parking garage. I told the Dr. and others there what had happened and thanked them for appearing when they did. It wasn't a couple min later security appeared they had seen the exchange from the security camera that monitors the walkway. They took off to the parking garage but never found the guy. I don't ever use that walkway when I go to the doctors office any more. Instead I cross the busy street and go up the packed drive way hoping I don't become somebodies new hood ornament. I also work at a community outreach center that has a food pantry, clinic, daycare and some other programs. More then a few occasions at the food pantry someone tweeking or on more drugs then they keep in the clinic has caused an incident involving law enforcement. I have to park in the parking lot behind the building away from the main entrance and where all the low lives come to get to the pantry. I used to think who would mess with some gimped up guy. What I learned is I'm perceived as an easy mark ripe for the taking. I really feel like I go around with a target on me now because of what has happened to me. People really are clueless who say not in their neighborhood or not where I live. Any way the point of my request.
I carry 2 knives for protection. They are switch blade type in that they have assisted opening one is a 3" blade and is a tactical type military knife. It is my primary self defence weapon. The second is a smaller I think maybe 1.5 or 2 inch blade typical pocket knife but also assisted opening. They are easy to get to but I don't like the idea of only being able to use them up close. I fear that by that time I am able to use one I really won't have a use for them it will be to late. I want to get my conceal to carry permit but I have no clue about guns. I'm a paraplegic with balance issues. I've held a police officers .45cal pistol but to hold it I could only do it one handed and the officer told me I needed to use two hands for control or I won't be able to hit what I want. If I hold a pistol two handed extended out in front of me I can't sit up strait to shot it. I'm always falling forward from all the weight out in front of me. My question is with all the guns out there on the market surely there is a gun of a decent caliber I can handle one handed and concealable in my chair but simple and easy to get too.
Also what all do they teach specifically at these classes and in your opinion would a guy in a chair be able to participate and pass? It has been my experience that I'm sometimes allowed to participate but never taken seriously. I don't want to be allowed to take the class but because of so many obstacles not be able to get my permit because I can't really participate. If you have done all this maybe you could fill me in on what goes on and would a guy who sits be able to do it all. My parents are behind me 110% on this but I've not signed up for any thing because I don't really know where to start with the selection of a gun. I also think I'm the worlds biggest procrastinator but if I had more information I'll take the steps I need to finally. Thanks for any thing you might can assist with."
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
To your friend:

Depending on the type of class, you should be able to participate and pass. Mostly they just want to make sure you can hit your target.

As for the firearms, I would recommend revolvers since you don't seem too gun-savvy. You likely have considerable arm strength so weight shouldn't be an issue. I'll go 19th century calvary on this one:

You should probably pack, on the chair, a S&W L- or N-Frame (or Taurus equivelant) chambered in .44mag. Load these up with a good .44spl hollowpoint (Gold Dot, Golden Saber, etc). I used to shoot a friend's .44mag SA revolver all the time one handed and could hit very well out to 25yds. I didn't need two hands with that heavy thing, and I have a permanently damaged elbow and shoulder in my shooting arm.

As well, because you're carrying this sucker on your chair, I'd advise you to get a snub .38 to carry on your person. Load it with LSWCHP, preferably in the heavier 158gr range, for plenty of penetration. You might look at the Remington, Federal, and Buffalo Bore loadings.

Just make sure you practice a whole lot! Eleven or 12 shots are quite a bit, but a wheelchair is a fairly loud cry that says "I'm a good target." If I were wheelchair bound I'd be carrying extra ammo in speedloaders.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out! Feel free to sign up to this board as well. Lots of good people here.

Josh <><

-----------

I'm moving this to a forum where it will get more replies. J.S.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
Hello.
At a concealed carry match that I attended there was one older gent who was in an electric-powered chair. He was shooting well one-handed with a K-frame snub-nosed revolver of some sort--it looked like an M10 with a 2" barrel to me. You may have done so already, but do take your friend to a range that offers rentals and try some out with the particular needs of the shooter in mind.

As far as knives go, would a fixed-blade be preferable and possibly quicker into action to a folder in this situation?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,951 Posts
You know, I was just at the gunstore yesterday and completely forgot about a combo I was wishing I could afford: They had a Ruger 4" .357mag as well as a Ruger 2" .357mag. Both were very nice and would have looked like a big brother/little brother matched set. I didn't take them from the case so I do not know if the snub was a five or six shot.

But, do not overlook the Ruger. They're built like tanks and the fact that they're stainless make them look bigger than they really are - the intimidation factor shouldn't be overlooked (though I do prefer blued guns myself).

As well, the Ruger is, to me, the Glock of the revolver world: You just grab, load and go. They are tough but come apart easily for cleaning. I'm by nature a tinkerer so I've always prefered a good gun that I can customize, but Rugers are more of a tool than a piece of art (opinions may differ on that). Heck, even their factory grips feel great, and I've never seen one that didn't have those ergonomic grips on them.

Josh <><
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,642 Posts
I am by means in the shape your friend is in, but I am disabled (back). I was hesitant to take my first class because of that, and checked with the instructor first because of that and walking with a cane at the time (and having to shoot one-handed like your friend). He welcomed me, and was very encouraging, offered assistance, let me keep a chair on the range to sit in between relays, etc.

I had tried to get to another class at that time, but it was full. When I checked with that instructor about my disability, he was not only OK with it, but encouraged me me to come BECAUSE of it. To add insult to injury, I had just broken a toe and was wearing a "boot", but he saw that as an opportunity to train while injured rather than a reason not to go.
That was Louis Awerbuck, and I've since found out that he wrote an article in S.W.A.T. magazine about how being disabled does not necessarily mean disadvantaged (that may even be the title).
I can see if I still have that article around if you want it.

And that's how it's been for me since with training. I don't know if I've just gotten lucky with the instructors/schools I've chosen or if that's standard, but most seem to understand that the people who have the hardest time getting training are often the ones who need it most.

Edit-
I found that article. I can scan and email it to you if you want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
+1 on the Ruger SP101, although it is a five shooter, especially the model with the 3 1/16"in. barrel. Mr. Camp's website offers some assessments and reviews of the Ruger revolvers and other firearms.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,867 Posts
Hello. If your friend can handle 300-lbs weightlifting, I don't think that recoil from any of the cartridges usually considered for self-protection will offer too much recoil for him but certainly there will be more than for the average two-hand shooter, I believe.

If he is not familiar with handguns, the revolver may very well be a viable choice but as I see it as it seems that most deadly force scenarios involving honest private citizens are decided one way or the other in but a few rounds. At the same time, I do see your friend as having a harder time seeking cover being confined to a wheelchair, not a good thing in the context of this topic. While I definitely oppose the "spray and pray" approach to about any form of shooting, perhaps this set of circumstances suggests a higher-capacity handgun? Both the revolver and the autoloader can be reloaded with one hand, an important consideration as your friend may very well have to be steadying the chair with the other. If he opts for the revolver, I think this pretty much dictates the use of speedloaders.

Since he is seated, I do not see weight as a major issue in this case so I would go with a heavier handgun, an all-steel one to cut felt recoil. I don't know if he plans to conceal on his person or have the handgun hidden in the chair but in either case, I think that a heavier handgun is one consideration I'd closely consider.

I would go no less than 38 Special +P or 9mm in any event. Good loads exist for both. I would also encourage him to try the 45 ACP if he has that option.

In his set of circumstances, there is probably no need for a bbl of less than 3" with the revolver or 4" with the semiauto. Another reason for the 3" minimum bbl length is for the longer ejector rod since he'll very likely being a one-handed reload. The shorter snub ejector rods can require the use of two-hands for positive ejection, something that may not be an option. Should he opt to go for the smallest possible package, in an autoloader I'd suggest a Glock 26; this contradicts my suggestion for a heavier handgun but they are simple to use, hold 10 or 11 rounds (if you top off a standard magazine), are reliable as homemade sin and most find them pretty easy to shoot. They will also hold up to lots of shooting and unlike some compact 9mm pistols, the ones I've seen and shot have been utterly reliable.

While most praises for the Ruger SP101 are definitely strong, I'd suggest taking a look at the GP100 in a 3" bbl with fixed sights. Despite claims of consistently terrible trigger pulls, I have not found this to be the case all the time and the trigger pulls can be made more than just "nice" by a good 'smith. Not only does he get the sixth shot before having to reload but he gains recoil-dampening weight should he opt for full-power loads. If they prove a bit much, there are also some really good mid-power loads that should be tame as a kitten on his end of the gun yet raise a great deal of hell in any "soft target" they encounter on the receiving end. Here is a link that might be of interest:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/can_less_be_more.htm

Best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,064 Posts
Howdy Mr. Coastkid5,

I too would encourage your friend to find a CCW course and participate. I see no reason at all why he could not both participate and pass the course. Most indoor ranges I have fired in have the tray portion of the shooting booth designed to be folded flat, so with luck his wheelchair should also fit within the booth. I know the range I currently belong to even has one booth designed for "handicapped folks" as it is a bit wider so I know a wheelchair would fit within that booth.

As far as the best weapon for him to use, I understand he has a balance problem, and will be restricted to one hand shooting because of that. For the increased capacity often offered, I would probably suggest he consider a 9mm pistol of some flavor. It would also speed up his reloads if one were needed over doing a revolver reload one-handed as well, in my opinion. I prefer a steel framed pistol (and revolver) for the added weight to help reduce recoil. But he will have to decide the weight of the handgun that feels the best to him really.

I have a good friend who retired from my agency, who only has one arm. You will notice I used "handicapped folks" above, because to me Mr. Tom was anything but. Everytime I ran quals on the range, Mr. Tom showed me a new trick I could add to tactical courses, and a new way to manipulate a weapon. I suggest a pistol over a revolver, as I have watched Mr. Tom using both having to do everything with only one hand, and he was much faster getting back into the fight with a pistol. When the boss told me to pick a team of agents to go do something "interesting" Mr. Tom was always in the group of folks I requested to come play.

I notice you are in Texas and your buddy is in Oklahoma City, so unless you plan on visiting him soon, you may not be able to help him directly on this next one. But another friend or maybe his folks could as well. The best way for him to choose the best weapon for him, is to hold and handle several. Shooting them would be even better, but may not be possible based on whether or not the gun store he goes to has a range or rental weapons.

But at the very least he can certainly handle several different brands and models and calibers. He may find something that seems to really fit his firing hand well. In my opinion, all things being equal, a handgun that feels good in my hands is one I will shoot well too. If he finds a couple of different handguns that feel good to him, then he might want to try to shoot them if possible, to see which one seems to suit him best.

Many folks do not feel a 9mm is a true self defense round, but I tend to disagree. Given the advancements in ammuntion development, in my view there are some excellent rounds available for the 9mm pistol that make it a very effective self-defense platform. He would probably feel less felt recoil from a 9mm that most other pistol calibers as well, so he would probably shoot it faster and better than a more powerful round. I have carried 9mm handguns for the majority of my LEO career when using a pistol, and never felt I was underarmed - given the advancements in ammo manufacture, especially in recent years. Besides I also believe where I put the bullet is far more important than the caliber of the projectile exiting my barrel. If I do my part, I feel that most ammo these days will do their part for me too. Since your buddy already has an existing balance problem, I suggest he start off thinking 9mm. If he can fire larger calibers and likes them, fine and good, but I think a 9mm would work well for him too.

With many folks simply producing a handgun will help them realize they have made a mistake. But some massive, large caliber weapon that he can not shoot well or quickly would prove more of a liablity to him than an asset in my view anyway. He wants to find a weapon he can shoot well and control one-handed. The more confident he feels with the weapon the more he will likely practice with it too. That is another reason to consider the 9mm in my view, as he will likely get more rounds for his dollar than with larger calibers, so he will be able to shoot more rounds while practicing.

I have another friend who has some serious back problems and has to walk with a cane. He largely has to shoot one-handed as well because of that fact. I know in Arizona, he had no problem obtaining his concealed weapon permit, and would strongly encourage your friend to pursue obtaining his too.

If after you pass our responses on to him, he has additional questions, please feel free to post them for him. Or encourage him to join our site as well. He would be more than welcomed here, as I personally think our members are "just great folks" who enjoy helping other members out when they can.

Take care and thank you for posting your friend's questions as well sir.

twoguns

P.S. I certainly do not know it all and will never claim to. But I have been a police firearms instructor for 35 years and have learned some tricks/techniques for one-hand shooting and reloading etc. If either you or your friend would like to pm me directly, please feel free to do so.
 
G

·
for the first several hundred years of handguns it never occured to anyone to use two hands, that's why they are called handguns and not hands guns,,, If I ca hit targets one handed from horse back I see no reason a one handed wheelchair bound person couldnt, all it takes is practice, I definetly feel a revolver is the way to go here,Ruger SP101 comes to mind but any 3" to 4" Smith, taurus, colt, or Ruger in 357 would be my reccomendation. An initial purchase of the same type of gun in .22 would be good to learn the basics and get the high volume of practice without breaking the bank.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
206 Posts
I disagree completely with what Jose said.

there is no reason to limit one's self to snubbie revolvers when one is in a wheelchair. one is not encumbered by weight as much, and there are more nooks and crannies to hide a gun.it would not look out of place to have a blanket or sheet or a pouch on a wheelchair.

357 snubbie is fine for up close and personal but since he is shooting from a disadvantage he should get something with more range, less recoil and more shots.if he is close enough where he can place shots consistently one handed on a target with a snub then he is too close to his aggressor.


Semi's are better than revolvers at dissipating recoil than revolvers, and they are flatter which makes them easier to hide on a chair.

***more range**** why? because he has impaired mobility.you cant compare the mobility of a man on a horse to one on a wheelchair.

***low recoil*** he has to make his shots count.low recoil makes hitting easier with one hand.

***more shots*** with one free hand it is hard to reload. besides, bullets are cheap, life is priceless.

dont forget that if he is shooting he cant take cover because he cant move. you and i can run for cover and shoot at the same time but how can he move the chair, hold himself steady and still fire the weapon? he has to chose between moving and shooting and has no way to take cover. he needs long sight radius, and low recoil high velocity round to ensure accuracy and long range.

i would start with a 4" 9mm at the least. glock 19 or compact
S&W MP9 would not be a bad option; cheap, effective and easy to learn, but i wouldnt rule out something larger like the CZ75.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top