[Bob Reed]

Hello,

It's been said before that folks carry The High Power for the gun, and The 1911 for the .45 ACP Cartridge... Well, I guess I'm one of a handfull that loves the 1911 more for the gun it's self than the .45 ACP Cartridge, all thow I do quite like the 1911/.45 combo, I'd rather carry'em in Super .38, but, The High Power is my first pick for the gun it's self, followed very closely by The 1911 for the gun it's self.

When it comes to these two fine pistols, what makes you pick one over the other for everyday trust & carry? Is it The Cartridge or The Platform, or Both? (I know, many of us own & carry both), but, let's just say you was expecting trouble and your job required you to Be There, would you carry your High Power or your 1911 that day?

Many Thanks & Take Care,

 

[weshowe]

Sockman and all,
I love the 1911 both for the cartridge and the pistol. It is my #1 choice. That said, I have carried the BHP in 9mm and .40 S&W and never felt "undergunned".
All your selections are worth betting your life on...
Wes

 

[hangfire]

Never kick the other guy's dog, nor criticize his bride.
I've never (gasp!) owned a .45, but there's no question it's the standard by which we judge both handguns and cartridges. I've shot .45s and 10s, liked them. Had a Super once, with a spare 9mm barrel and a .22 unit. It was a great go-anywhere rig. Sold it when Pachmayr made .22 conversions for the HP. I keep going back to the HP. Ammo is cheap and available world-wide. It can do what needs to be done, and I don't lose sleep over the difference. Isn't that what matters?

 

[Chris Stephens]

Hi there,

I've owned and shot both, but the 9mm HP gives me a personally distinct advantage.

Chris

 

[jimhigginbotham]

The "Half-Power" ( ) is one of my favorite designs but, regardless of caliber, I think the 1911 is a more robust, reliable and accurate pistol with a shorter trigger reset.

That said, the difference is small enough that some folks will never even know it exists.

OTOH, the P-35 is trimmer and the perfect height (since the average hand does not "dribble" off the bottom) and probably the perfect length.

With bullets that expand and penetrate adequately, I would hate to live on the difference.

Jim;

PS - I thought I would love the .40 but the thicker slide took away some of what I like about the Browning. As much as I beleive that bigger holes have an advantage (probably not as much as some folks think and more than others think) I rather like my Browning in .356 TSW better since it is a modified 9mm - I can't beleive I said that! :-/

 

[wags]

I prefer the BHP in 9mm and feel very comfortable with 115gr FMJ bullets as my choice loads. Yep, just like they were designed in 190?. My only 1911 pistol (Colt Combat Commander) also is in 9mm. Nothing against the 45ACp, but I, me, prefers the 9mm cartridge.

 

[pgm]

Sockman,

I prefer the BHP in MK III 9mm with a good JHP load (Winchester Ranger RA9TA or Speer 124 grain +P GDHP, for example). I especially like the 14 rounds on tap and the overall streamlined feel of the pistol at speed.

I've owned only one quality 1911 and it did not have the reliability out of the box that the BHP has demonstrated. While it could probably have been made reliable with a minimal investment, the BHP just "feels right" to me and so it is my semiautomatic pistol of choice.

Also, with all due respect to the 1911 guys, you must admit that the BHP is just an overall sexier looking piece of armament.

PGM

 

[randomman]

Since I don't own an HP, but I do own a 1911 in .45, I choose the good 'ole standard in combat handguns.

-Rob

 

[Guest]

I have to stick with the 1911, usually in .38 Super. This is what I have carried and depended on for niegh on the 50 years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 'Sides, the grip on the HP is too fat for my smallish hands.

 

[Guest]

I went to a Sreet Survival Seminar in 1983 up in Wyoming and saw a huge picture of a perp with 31 9mm holes in him that lived to sue the Cops for excessive use of force and WON!
That was enough for me. I am .45ACP all the way!

I have tried to like the 9mm for over 50 years and have failed. I always have one around but never carry it.

 

[Guest]

I went to a Sreet Survival Seminar in 1983 up in Wyoming and saw a huge picture of a perp with 31 9mm holes in him that lived to sue the Cops for excessive use of force and WON!
That was enough for me. I am .45ACP all the way!

I have tried to like the 9mm for over 50 years and have failed. I always have one around but never carry it.

That happened in 1967 in District 5 of the Illinois State Police juristriction! I saw the aftermath as it was in my County, they needed a rake to gather all the brass! ISP had recently converted over to the S&W Model 39 from their 6" Model 28"s. Make ya wonder what the outcome would be if they were still carring the 28's.

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Isn't that the one where the Winchester 100-gr. Powerpoints were being used or was it ball? I cannot recall.

Best.

 

[abninftr]

1983 is ancient history when one considers how projectiles and ballistics have improved in the insuing 23 years.

Ayoob has written reams - it seems like about two articles a year at least, about ISP's cartridge problems in their early days with auto loaders.

 

[Guest]

I have a different view of handguns beause I am able to build them from a box of parts and do to them what I consider will be improvments over what factories in strange countries can do.
My last living Hero, Colonel Jeff Cooper says that " the 9mm did not work in WWI, it did not work in WWII and it won't work in WWIII."
It is not working in Iraq as we speak.
I consider Jeff a very wise man and agree with him on most important issues of our time.

 

[BarryinIN]

I like the HiPower in 9mm, and I like the 1911 in .45.
I carry either one happily.

 

[jimhigginbotham]

Isn't that the one where the Winchester 100-gr. Powerpoints were being used or was it ball? I cannot recall.

Best.

That's what the guy who took the picture told me. Something like 33 hits. Some went through resulting in some exit holes.

The significant thing is that they guy was still up until shot with a 12 ga which worked instantly.

Jim

 

[Guest]

"It is not working in Iraq as we speak."

I'm not trying to start a 9mm vs 45 thread, but I disagree with you. I can personally assure you that the 9mm is working just fine in Iraq. I would not be here if it wasn't.

I prefer the BHP in 9mm.

 

[hangfire]

You can take anything Col. Cooper says to the bank, but, although he prefers the .45, he has reported favorably on both the BHP and the H&K P7M8. Incidentally, this great man is seriously ill. We may not have his advice much longer, except in his several excellent books. I was privileged to meet him three years ago at Gunsite. If you have not read Cooper, read him. If you have not had the opportunity to study at Gunsite, or one of the other schools which follow Cooper's principles, make it happen. You will not regret it.

 

[jimhigginbotham]

I feel sure that the 9 with ball has worked for some folks some times. I also feel sure the .45 has failed for some people some times (I have seen the 5.56 and .308 fail as well as a 12gauge with slugs).

Placement trumps ballistics (as long as you have adequate penetration) but good placement is not just hitting someone "center mass" or even in the heart/lungs...it means exactly what the bullet struck and is so difficult that none of us can actually predict (since we have not knowlege of exactly where the organs lie in the specific individual we are shooting). So we try to keep the hits to a small area in the center of the chest and hope for the best.

I have had many students rotate through Afghanistan or Iraq since early 2002. Most of them had pistols but apparently very few, percentage wise, have had to use them. Of all the AARs I have reviewed (not just from my students, I get most of the stuff from CALL and other military services) I have recorded not one that mentioned the 9mm in a positive light, several have reported failures to stop with multiple hits. Of course most don't mention pistols at all since they are seldom used.

The most memorable quote I got was from S.F. Captain who said "Send me a .45! Shooting Taliban with a 9mm is like flies hitting a lightbulb" (that Capt. was awarded the Bronze Star w/V). On his subsequent trips to Iraq and to Africa he carried a Kimber .45.

What folks dont seem to realize is that there are still some 20,000 old 1911a1s in service in addition to the special purchases made for Delta Force, SEALs and MEUSOC... we dont seem to get any negative feedback on those like we do on the Beretta and 9mm cartridge (not that I have not seen a few AARs which said the Berettas were OK if they were chambered for a more effective cartridge).

Onward,
Jim

 

[Guest]

I do not ever want to start trouble on a forum. I do not say what I post to cause anyone to change their mind, or argue the points I have made. I just tuned over my Star BM to my web mistress because it is a reliable pistol for home self defense for a woman who lives alone. It is tuned up for hardball hot 9mm ammo and fits her hand and her purse. I also realize that the ammo has improved greatly in the last few years in these minor calibers.
The considerations here are certainly valid, but mean nothing to me.
I drive a Cadillac and it is Number Seventeen.
I am a Cadillac Man.
I carry .45 ACP 1911's because I am a 45 ACP Man.

I value my life enough to carry what I think is a good perp stopper and if it doesn't work, it's my fault, not the fault of the cartridge or the gun.

Like Clint Smith says "You can do everything riight, and still lose the fight."
I will never try to start a problem on this forum or any other forum. I am here to be of some help, if I can.