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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Howdy folks,

I had a phone call tonight from a buddy who is about to have to attend the course to re-certify his CCW permit. He wanted to get together and do a little shooting. He also said he wanted to try some new things to give him more exposure to different types of shooting. My friend said he has never shot one-handed and wanted to try that and get some pointers with it too.

His phone call got me wondering about the type of practice most folks do during their shooting sessions - specifically if they ever practice one hand shooting using both the strong and weak hands.

I have been in law enforcement most of my life, and within a year of going full-time, I became a firearms instructor. I have only held one CCW permit, and that was to allow me to legally carry a non-duty weapon when off duty. Because I was in LE, I did not have to attend the normal training course to obtain the permit.

I know each state has different certification requirements for CCW permits (if allowed), and that each instructor has their own preferred points to stress. I am also curious if one hand shooting techniques (strong and weak hand) are taught during this training.

So I thought I would do a poll to see what folks think about spending some of their practice time shooting with their strong and weak hands, along with two hand shooting.

As LEOS I think we do our best to train for most scenarios we might encounter, and hope we never really have to put the training into use. Over my career, I have worked for one municipal department, four different federal agencies, and was loaned to a fifth immediately after 9/11. Each has had their own course of fire for qualification, and stressed different things during any tactical training that was given.

But each qualification course has required some shooting with both the strong and weak hands. These are to give us practice in continuing to engage the badguy(s) if we should take a round in one shoulder/arm/hand, and can only respond using a single hand. Not all, but most of this training has also required practicing one-hand reloading - for the same reason.

Unless we are serving a search warrant or high risk arrest warrant, or something else that has changed our threat level appraisal, I think most LEOs generally tend to leave our handgun holstered. As such if some type of deadly force weapon is produced by the badguy, we are sometimes behind the power curve from the start, playing catch-up, and therefore have a greater chance of being injured during the encounter. Most body armor does not provide protection to the extremities, so this is another valid reason to practice one handed.

My friend's phone call reminded me that as a civilian, he could be as likely if not more likely to find himself behind the power curve if placed in a deadly force situation. So we will do some two hand, strong hand, and weak hand shooting - until he tells me his fun meter has maxed out.

So what do you folks think? It does not matter if you are a LEO or a civilian using a CCW, share your thoughts on whether or not you see this type of training as beneficial. I would also be curious to know if it was taught or discussed in your CCW class (or dept/agency training).

I have been very impressed with the knowledge possessed by the members of this forum. I also appreciate the way members are able to present differing points of view in an intelligent and polite manner. I have seen different thoughts throw out, but never any stones thrown at someone who holds a different point of view - which makes this group unique to me.

I also think this type of discussion might be beneficial to some of the newer shooters here, to expose them to this concept, and let them pick up any pointers folks want to offer.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

twoguns
 

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Hy,

To have a CCW in my country, you are asked for a police certification which says you have never committed any crime, you ID and you have to write a CCW request fundamentation. This means you have to tell why you are asking for carry a weapon. Then you go through a psychological examination.

In my particular case, I wanted a weapon for sport reasons, I presented the IPSC papers, my membership to my firing club, my police certification and my ID. I was not asked to go to the psychoanalyst. But I was asked to show my military certificate (the certificate you get after completing your military training with 18 years after school)

I was not asked to show my firing skills.

As far as I know, as a civilian that not practices shooting as a sport, it is very difficult to have a "legal" CCW. (if not almost impossible)

It is very difficult to fundament a permit request for self defense reasons. You have to demonstrate that you are in real danger, and in this case the police might prefer to protect you instead of giving you a CCW permit.

This is new, because some time ago, you could purchase a pistol, go to the police, present the police certificate and your ID and you could register your weapon.

Funny is that registered weapons are not used in crimes. Most are stolen weapons from the police or army.

Political post are not allowed in this forum, so I will not comment my thoughts.

But I think you in the US can have more gun enjoyment.
 

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Here in Florida we have a generous CC law. (no duty to retreat) When I took my CCW class I added a basic defensive handgun class and what was emphasized was real world shooting and being first to pull the trigger on a close quarter combat situation which is also the most likely to occur or so I
 

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our shooting group is going to have an event this summer...weak hand, one handed.

so I voted I'll practice some one handed, meaning weak hand only. should be fun!

og
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Howdy again folks,

For those that want to try it for the first time, or maybe want to feel more comfortable, let me pass along a trick I was taught in a gun course. Now I just wish I had learned it years before.

When you are holding your weapon with either strong or weak hand only, turn the sights of your weapon inward, towards your body about 45 degrees. The explanation given for this, was it reduced the stress normally placed on your arm and shoulder muscles for one hand shooting. It was also said to give you a stronger grip/shooting platform for one hand shooting.

When I tried it, I did feel it gave me better control of my pistol and that my groups were tighter too. It is the technique I use when practicing one handed. So the next time you are shooting one handed, give that a try and see if you think it is helpful for you as well.

OG, keep us posted on how your shoot goes. Unless some of your group are members here, maybe you can surprise them all - when you smoke them one handed (grinning).

As I said, it has helped me improve both my control and group size, especially in rapid fire practice. Hopefully it will help you too.

twoguns
 
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Twoguns is absolutely right about turning your gun kinda sideways when shooting one handed. This was something that I noticed I was doing by accident. I'm right handed and when I was shooting with only my weak-hand I noticed my my groups were signifigantly better than when I was shooting with just my right hand. I figured out that I was tilting the gun sideways to line the sights up with my right eye. It causes the gun to recoil much differently and much more controlably when shooting with only one hand. Just don't think you're a gangster and hold the gun on it's side. You'll get laughed out of your prefered range.
 

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I normally practice two handed Weaver.

However, I also do the speed rock. I turn my wrist outward, or palm up, for this. It helps lock the wrist for a quick unaimed double tap and less than a yard.

I practice about 50% of my shooting (about 100rnds per week when the weather is suitable) using one hand, split approximately 50/50 between my strong and weak hand (ambidextrous with a lefty preference).

I also practice crazy stuff like border shifts. Yes, I know, not usually wise, but I do this with an unloaded gun, cocked'n'unlocked. I've never once had the hammer fall. I've gotten fairly good at this practice and believe it's necessary should my shooting arm be hurt and I can't, for whatever reason, get to my backup.

Josh <><
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Mr. Josh,

You are making me grin a bit. The second week of this course I mentioned was only 5 students and we were all police firearms instructors with at least 10 years+ experience as instructors. The course had been developed by a very successful 1911 competitive shooter at the request of the Navy Seals, who wanted to control their 1911s more accurately in rapid fire.

What started out as a favor to the Seals, quickly developed into an amazing course of fire, that could only be attended by Spec Ops groups and active law enforcement personnel. I think all of us felt very fortunate to attend this training. It was not cheap, and none of us could have afforded to pay for it out of pocket.

All 5 of us had attended the first week which had taught us their basic shooting system. Week two was when they brought out most of their "tricks". Every round we fired in week two was fired against a timer, with a max time allowed with 100% accuracy required.

The instructor would show us a "trick", and we were all standing around that first day saying "this is crazy". But we all very quickly began to understand "crazy" can be very effective too. He was not really inventing something new, as much as simply thinking outside of the normal box.

Personally I would rather call your technique "innovative" as it works well for you, serves a legitimate purpose, and you have mastered it while still handling your pistol safely.

By day two we had stopped saying "crazy, nuts, odd" and were all saying - you know this is not really rocket science you are showing us here. Once we have practiced a new "trick" we understand it is something so simple and basic we can not figure out why we have never stumbled into it on our own. He would just grin and say, be patient, it will get better. Each new skill builds on the pervious ones you have just mastered. All of these tricks were exactly that - simple and basic, but extremely effective too.

Incidentially, we had to learn what he called a "transition drill" where we had to draw and fire one round strong handed, then using their techinique, swap the pistol over to our weak hand and fire one round in what sounded like a ridiculously short time allowance. With practice, we were all easily doing the drill consistenly within the time limits.

We would cant the pistol inward 45 degrees to fire, then straighten it up and bring our gun hand back to nearly our chest to make the transition to the other hand, with the barrel pointed at the target. Then extend, cant and fire. It was designed to simulate just taking a round after firing once, and needing to use the opposite hand to continue shooting. He had us bring the gun back near our chest as he felt the wound and shock would likely do that anyway, and while injured we maintained better control of a loaded pistol while making the transfer.

We had to practice all of their "tricks"with a live weapon, and none of us had the first AD/ND whatever phrase you prefer to use. I don't really think it was because we were all naturally talented gun handlers (well of course we were, lol). Actually, I think that was simply because we were going out on thin ice, doing something new and different, and we all concentrated that much harder to remain safe with a hot weapon.

Personally the one statement I am comfortable making about actual shooting situations is that they will rarely be exactly what we have trained or practiced for, at least in my opinion. So anything we can add new or different to give us wider exposure is simply a plus to me.

I can honestly say the members here have consistently impressed me enough, for the first time I feel comfortable talking about some of these "tricks" on a gun forum. I have also picked up some other "tricks" from members.

You know Josh, in 34 or so years as an instructor, I have never even heard of your palm up technique. I have been positioning my hands like that without a gun while typing this (don't want to kill my monitor, lol). I can already get a feel for what you are talking about. It does seem very steady to me. So I just picked up another one to practice now too - thank you sir (tips my hat).

Sorry if I am sounding like an instructor now, as I don't mean to at all. I just enjoy sharing things that might help others - at least when the group has made me feel comfortable sharing things - which this forum does.

Hope my thoughts might give folks some new ideas/tricks/things to try in your next shooting session.

twoguns
 
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