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The Feb 07 issue of Shooting Times has an article on two new pistols by Armalite. The pistols are actually made by the Turkish firm Sarsilmaz; according to the article Sarsilmaz will also be making Armalite rifles under license to supply the Turkish military.

The CZ-like pistols reviewed in the article are both 9mm, although a .40 S&W version, and later a .45 ACP version are supposed to be available. The AR-24 is a full-size, 14 rounder, the AR-24K is a compact with shorter barrel and grip, and 12 rounds. DA/SA, can be carried cocked and locked. Fixed sights and adjustable sights available. MSRP $550-$630.

The pictures of them look remarkably like the EAA Witness, but since I've only seen pictures, they might not be that close in reality. The pictures on Armalite's website are not that good.

http://armalite.com/sales/catalog/pistols.htm

Anyone seen this in the flesh, er, steel yet? Look interesting but I'll probably buy another Hi Power before I would get one.


elb
 

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No sorry, I have not seen one yet either. I did read the same article. Just a suggestion, for less money you can find a NIB CZ75B in either 9 or 40. The more I shoot my 75B the more I want to shoot mine. I am in the process of having work done on an SP-01 which I will then buy.

I would rather have the pistol they are trying to copy than the copy. But that is just my opinion, based on shooting the CZ.

If you do get one, let us know what you think of it.

twoguns
 
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The CZ's and the Witnesses are known quantities, the Armalite item isn't, although there's no reason a product with the Armalite name on it wouldn't be qaulity. And there's some very nice-looking guns coming out of Turkey now.

I would wait until they hit the market and check over the fit, finish and quality of the trigger pull and see how it compares to the established products. The CZ's and Witnesses will be very hard to beat on the quality vs. price scale.


(P.S. Always take gun magazine articles with "a grain of salt." The magazine editor doesn't want to lose advertisers (or potential advertisers).)
 

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I have to ask, does anyone besides me see the Armalite pistol as a re-hash, albeit different calibre, of the Bren 10 design which was based upon to CZ75?
 

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nevadaalan,

I agree with you totally about gun magazines as a rule. The fact they are trying to be unbiased is a major joke to me. I subscribe to several, mainly to stay up with what is going on in weapon development. But all shooting reviews are not something I choose to rely upon. When can you ever recall a review of a new weapon that was negative?

The only exception I make to not trusting gun magazines is one called Gun Tests. They function differently than other publications, in that they accept no advertising. When they want to test a weapon, they walk into a gun store and buy it at full retail. So they shoot one anyone could buy, and not one sent by the factory for them to evaluate.

Then they usually have several folks shoot it to do away with individual bias on the weapon to a large degree. When individual opinions on a particular weapon vary significally they will usually state why. They also try to get shooters with different sized hands and shooting levels as well involved in their evaluation shoots.

I like the fact they often will contrast 2 or more similar weapons in each evaluation. If they feel a weapon is poorly made or designed, they do not hesititate to say so. They will also give what they feel is the best bet pick between multiple weapons evaluated, and their reasons for that pick. If a weapon malfunctions out of the box they discuss that with details as well. They also note when one functions perfectly with assorted ammo.

Because of their approach and non-advertising policy, I do tend to pay more attention to their firearms reviews. Thought you and other members that have not heard of them might be interested in one worth reading.

I have no relationship with them, except as a subscriber. Their contact info if anyone is interested is: Gun Tests, subscriptions: 800-829-9084 (US and Canada) or [email protected].

twoguns
 

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My issue with Gun Tests is with the subjectivity and objectivity of their tests as there seems to a certain amount of personal bias.
 

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Well I guess we all have our own personal biases, since we are human and not computers. But of all the magazines out there, if I am looking for a firearm evaluation to pay any serious attention to - it is theirs. Since they accept no advertising and buy their test weapons out of gun stores, to me they are at least trying to be much more realistic in their evaluations.

Just my opinion, for what it is worth.

twoguns
 
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In the early days of Gun Tests magazine it was not a terribly professional publication and, like abninftr, my complaint was they would let personal bias color their evaluations. It's been far better for a number of years now and, although pricey, it's the only published source on guns that you can really rely on.
 
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Stole this from another forum. Incase if you haven't seem or heard of it, this is Armalite's new pistol. The AR-24 is based on the CZ's pistol design with P210 looking slide. I've put a few hundred rounds through it without any problems. The accuracy is not bad either. After the sights are zeroed in, it shots like my P228, these two are pretty similar in size and magazine capacity. The sights are dovetail cut fit so it won't be hard to change sights. The trigger is pretty smooth and light just like the CZ although I think CZ's are better. It also has front and back strap checkering, it's not the best I've seem but it's there. The grip feels pretty good at hand. It fill's up my hand in the right place so I can get a good grip when shooting it. This pistol is made with all forged steel. Over all I think it's a pretty good pistol. However, I think it's gonna be a hard battle for Armalite to get into to the CZ clone market. The AR-24 in the picture is compact size.
 

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Hello,

The picture is fine and fits into our 640x480 size range.

Thank you for providing it.

Chris
 
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I think Armalite rifles are fantastic but I've never handled a handgun by them. When they say it's based on the EEAA Witness I worry, because I've had experience with that make/model of handgun and it was pathetically horrible. Peices kept breaking off and required being sent back to the manufacturer (turnaround took forever and customer service was ridiculously bad) and the finish was even bad. North Dakota isn't the most humid place and unless wiped down with an oil cloth or lubed to the point of obscenity it would have rust on it after a couple of days even when fanatically clean. What a peice of crap. So that's not a comparison that inspires confidence.
 
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The problem I see with the Armalite offering is that many others are using the same design. Show me a new design that isn't made in a country where I don't even trust the water, like the USA!
 

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The problem I see with the Armalite offering is that many others are using the same design. Show me a new design that isn't made in a country where I don't even trust the water, like the USA!
Good Luck. Even Beretta's Cougars are made in Turkey now.
 
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Have you see their statement in magazines ads? : "A new chapter in the history of innovation"!. It made me laugh!
 
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nevadaalan,

I agree with you totally about gun magazines as a rule. The fact they are trying to be unbiased is a major joke to me. I subscribe to several, mainly to stay up with what is going on in weapon development. But all shooting reviews are not something I choose to rely upon. When can you ever recall a review of a new weapon that was negative?

The only exception I make to not trusting gun magazines is one called Gun Tests. They function differently than other publications, in that they accept no advertising. When they want to test a weapon, they walk into a gun store and buy it at full retail. So they shoot one anyone could buy, and not one sent by the factory for them to evaluate.

Then they usually have several folks shoot it to do away with individual bias on the weapon to a large degree. When individual opinions on a particular weapon vary significally they will usually state why. They also try to get shooters with different sized hands and shooting levels as well involved in their evaluation shoots.

I like the fact they often will contrast 2 or more similar weapons in each evaluation. If they feel a weapon is poorly made or designed, they do not hesititate to say so. They will also give what they feel is the best bet pick between multiple weapons evaluated, and their reasons for that pick. If a weapon malfunctions out of the box they discuss that with details as well. They also note when one functions perfectly with assorted ammo.

Because of their approach and non-advertising policy, I do tend to pay more attention to their firearms reviews. Thought you and other members that have not heard of them might be interested in one worth reading.

I have no relationship with them, except as a subscriber. Their contact info if anyone is interested is: Gun Tests, subscriptions: 800-829-9084 (US and Canada) or [email protected].

twoguns
I used to have an FFL and recieved some complimentary material from "Gun Tests". One of the articles was a poorly researched rant against the use of lead bullets in Glock pistols. I found this particularly amusing because I had fired about 20,000 rounds of lead reloads through several Glocks at the time with absolutely no problems. The article was pure BS and destroyed any faith I might have had in this publication. They may be unbiased, but they are also uninformed.
 

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Yes sir, I guess that is why they sell a ton of Fords and Chevys everyday, along with a ton of other brands too. Folks can buy the brand they want, and ignore the others.

Since they are not here to defend themselves, I will just say I don't recall ever reading an article where they claim to be experts. I don't consider them perfect, experts, or infallible, but I do like their approach to their reviews.

I think there is a lot to be said for walking into a gun store and purchasing a weapon off the shelf, as opposed to writing about one a factory sent you to review. They do try to offer an alternative approach to reviewing weapons, in which they attempt to be unbiased. I applaud them for making that effort, and enjoy reading what they publish. It is more information for me to consider when I am researching a particular weapon.

Like you, I also possessed a class 1 and class 6 FFL for nearly 20 years. While I never felt they made me an "expert", they did allow me to learn some things that others might not. But I often met others who in conversations, I felt knew more about a particular subject than I did, and welcomed their comments too. I see life as a learning experience, as long as we allow it to be.

But again, these are just my views, and others can certainly disagree.

Sorry to get so far off your thread ELB. As I said before, personally I would rather buy a CZ than a pistol trying to "copy" it. The CZs are a known entity, and I see the jury still largely being out on the Armalite pistols. If I was interested in them, personally I would give them some time to get any bugs worked out of them.

But again, that is just my opinion. I already own one CZ, and am so impressed with it, I am in the process of purchasing a second CZ pistol now.

ELB if you do buy one, please give us your thoughts after shooting it.

twoguns
 
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