Several of us were discussing this yesterday, a few suggested that carrying one of their magazines loaded with FMJ made sense in that this ammo will usually produce more penetration than JHP's. Is there any merit to this? I've never given it any thought, my pistols are either reliable with hollow points or gone, since HP's seem to "stop" faster I'd never seen any real reason to carry them except to the range to burn 'em up!
Any reason to carry a spare mag loaded w/FMJ?
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I don't see an advantage in any increased penetration FMJ might provide. Through most barriers JHP plugs up and acts like FMJ. Through a hard barrier like a windshield or sheet metal JHP seems to cave in and act like FMJ.
FMJ might have increased penetration through a soft target (bad guy), which is generally not considered good.
If improved penetration is an issue I'ld carry DPX, which seems to exceed FMJ through most barriers. (real AP ammo being illegal).
I have a simular opinion of folks that "Dutch" load a magazine (alternating JHP with FMJ). That practice makes little sense and is really a good way to create a malfunction.
FMJ might have increased penetration through a soft target (bad guy), which is generally not considered good.
If improved penetration is an issue I'ld carry DPX, which seems to exceed FMJ through most barriers. (real AP ammo being illegal).
I have a simular opinion of folks that "Dutch" load a magazine (alternating JHP with FMJ). That practice makes little sense and is really a good way to create a malfunction.
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D-
I've got mixed feelings about the practice too. I'm having a hard time visualizing a non-police or non-military defensive situation in which hardball would be a significant advantage, outside of being on the late shift at a car lot or other place where hard cover for an assailant is everywhere. But even in that case, I question the ability of a pistol bullet of any caliber or configuration to really save your bacon where such hard cover is so readily available to the assailant. I think retreat is probably the preferable option in such a case until or unless you can bring a rifle into the picture. Now, having said all that, if it makes you feel better to carry some hardball and you think you might need it, go for it. But I personally would only carry it as extra ammo in addition to my full load of JHP's, and it would be the hottest hardball I could get my hands on. A very biiiiiiiggggggg IMHO goes with this post.
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I've got mixed feelings about the practice too. I'm having a hard time visualizing a non-police or non-military defensive situation in which hardball would be a significant advantage, outside of being on the late shift at a car lot or other place where hard cover for an assailant is everywhere. But even in that case, I question the ability of a pistol bullet of any caliber or configuration to really save your bacon where such hard cover is so readily available to the assailant. I think retreat is probably the preferable option in such a case until or unless you can bring a rifle into the picture. Now, having said all that, if it makes you feel better to carry some hardball and you think you might need it, go for it. But I personally would only carry it as extra ammo in addition to my full load of JHP's, and it would be the hottest hardball I could get my hands on. A very biiiiiiiggggggg IMHO goes with this post.
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I can't think of anything ball would do that a good bonded hollowpoint would not.
Maybe ball could be used for the woods - small game hunting - but I would think a LSWC loaded light would be better for that...
Josh <><
Maybe ball could be used for the woods - small game hunting - but I would think a LSWC loaded light would be better for that...
Josh <><
In 9x18 I alternate FMJ and Hornady XTP HP. Works for me as the minimum SD round I carry.
Quote:"I have a simular opinion of folks that "Dutch" load a magazine (alternating JHP with FMJ). That practice makes little sense and is really a good way to create a malfunction. "
I do it to be sure of penetration with the 9x18. Since the Makarov or CZ82 doesn't know or care whether it's a FMJ or HP, it doesn't malfunction.
Either the rounds feed or they don't but if both FMJ and HP work with your pistol, a mixed magazine shouldn't be a problem.
Steve
Quote:"I have a simular opinion of folks that "Dutch" load a magazine (alternating JHP with FMJ). That practice makes little sense and is really a good way to create a malfunction. "
I do it to be sure of penetration with the 9x18. Since the Makarov or CZ82 doesn't know or care whether it's a FMJ or HP, it doesn't malfunction.
Either the rounds feed or they don't but if both FMJ and HP work with your pistol, a mixed magazine shouldn't be a problem.
Steve
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Not unless you were in dangerous game country - as mentioned above most good bullets act like ball in most chance barrier material. However if they contact flesh then one might need more than 10-12" of penetration for a rather sizeable dangerous animal - including mad domestic livestock (I actually ran into that situation once but it was not me that was getting gored).
Jim H.
Jim H.
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sgphoto
The thing is you are assuming you'll get a hit each time. what if....... you need penatration and the only hit you got was with a HP or your HP is a better stopper but the only hit you got was with a FMJ?
there's is more than a chance that you'll only get one "good" hit.
one old trick we used to do to check reliability on a new gun was to mix ammo in a magazine and blaze away. concept being that a varying recoil impulse might induce a malfunction
(I've gotten varying opinions on rather that's true, I just avoid mixing ammo for GP)
With most of the 9x18 available I'm inclined to just carry ball myself, I'm not sure the HP would expand anyway and if I'm worried about penetration with a mouse gun like a .32acp I just use ball. You can't always make something out of nothing. I carry HP in my .380 because the Remington green box I have works through my PPK/S.
If not it would loaded with FMJ. ( and in the safe replaced by a j-frame and LHP)
all the above just my 2 pennies worth as usual.
good luck
The thing is you are assuming you'll get a hit each time. what if....... you need penatration and the only hit you got was with a HP or your HP is a better stopper but the only hit you got was with a FMJ?
there's is more than a chance that you'll only get one "good" hit.
one old trick we used to do to check reliability on a new gun was to mix ammo in a magazine and blaze away. concept being that a varying recoil impulse might induce a malfunction
(I've gotten varying opinions on rather that's true, I just avoid mixing ammo for GP)
With most of the 9x18 available I'm inclined to just carry ball myself, I'm not sure the HP would expand anyway and if I'm worried about penetration with a mouse gun like a .32acp I just use ball. You can't always make something out of nothing. I carry HP in my .380 because the Remington green box I have works through my PPK/S.
If not it would loaded with FMJ. ( and in the safe replaced by a j-frame and LHP)
all the above just my 2 pennies worth as usual.
good luck
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Funny you should mention that but I now generally carry a mag of ball as back up to the fancy JHPs. First, I always carry a reload but you will be suprised who does not. Next, I do not think that +P+ or Golden Sabers really are magic bullets. Finally, while ball may not be a death ray, it sure does a) feed good and b) has over time done for a lot of folks. It is all about the placement (location, location, location). Still, the JHPs of my youth are not equal to the newer talons, sabers, dots and that ilk. They really do expand fairly well anymore.
Quote-"there's is more than a chance that you'll only get one "good" hit."
Actually, I plan to hit em' with every shot!
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Last night on Crime 360 (History Channel) it showed a very large individual (probably 325 lbs) get hit by seven .380 FMJ fired from a High-Point at a distance of 7-10 feet.
Now Bubba was a big ol' boy with a rather fleshy body. Died within seconds and fell off the porch. Discovered the next day.
Apparently six bullets remained in the dead guy. The first four shots were "fatal" (stomach and chest). The last three shots (in the arm, buttocks and thigh fired as the deceased had turned to run away) were survivable.
None of the bullets were really deformed in any way. Penetration seemed to be 6-8 inches.
Would HPs have expanded? Bubba was only wearing a lightweight shirt, so I'm not sure it would have offered much resistance. But then again, maybe they wouldn't have penetrated enough to cause death.
I'm not saying I'm right about my "Dutch" loaded magazine, but it fits my "logic" as regards to the 9x18.
Steve
Actually, I plan to hit em' with every shot!
Last night on Crime 360 (History Channel) it showed a very large individual (probably 325 lbs) get hit by seven .380 FMJ fired from a High-Point at a distance of 7-10 feet.
Now Bubba was a big ol' boy with a rather fleshy body. Died within seconds and fell off the porch. Discovered the next day.
Apparently six bullets remained in the dead guy. The first four shots were "fatal" (stomach and chest). The last three shots (in the arm, buttocks and thigh fired as the deceased had turned to run away) were survivable.
None of the bullets were really deformed in any way. Penetration seemed to be 6-8 inches.
Would HPs have expanded? Bubba was only wearing a lightweight shirt, so I'm not sure it would have offered much resistance. But then again, maybe they wouldn't have penetrated enough to cause death.
I'm not saying I'm right about my "Dutch" loaded magazine, but it fits my "logic" as regards to the 9x18.
Steve
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I've been in firefights with multiple rounds fired and no one was hit.
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