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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all, here's a course I have set up on my range. It's intended to simulate a gang approach on the sidewalk.



Target size is 8.5"x11", which is the largest I'm comfortable putting them into at speed. Experience has shown me that if I can't put them there with open sights on a service sized pistol, something's wrong.

The barrier on the left is a dead tree dragged into that position for that reason. On the right, the barrier is a chain link fence. The area marked "bad ground" is actually a place where I cored out a tree stump, but I use it to simulate anyplace I wouldn't want to stand - a gutter, drain, etc.

For the purposes of this post, I'll set it up as I ran it today.

My weapon was the 1911 with 8 rounds in the gun and 7 in the spare magazine.

T1 had a "gun." Three shots, double tap and one to the head.

T4 was not hostile and wasn't engaged.

T2 was hostile and had a "knife." double tap

T3 was hostile and had a "knife," but was hanging back. double tap

Cover was not present.

Seven rounds expended in the first pass. After the first pass, a random target from those three was chosen as one that was not "down" and was shot with the last round.

Reload was immediate, and course was engaged again beginning with T1.

The things I liked about today is that I was able to move. Lately this area has been a quagmire of mud due to rain and melting snow, and movement was difficult.

This course is easy with a high capacity pistol like the Taurus 9mm.

It's very challenging with the 1911 as it's designed to expend all my ammo.

It's downright impossible with a snubby unless I take the round count per target down, have a reload and don't miss at all.

That's my one issue, is the reload. I can't seem to get it through my head that I really should have a new mag in hand before dropping the expended one. It really slows me down. This is a bad habit, and I don't know where or when I picked it up. Lots of revolver practice maybe. Any tips here folks?

Other than that, I just wanted to share one of the worst case scenarios I've thought up, and maybe someone will be inspired to set up more than one target on the next range outing.

This type of shooting is really fun, I think.

Josh <><
 

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Howdy Mr. Josh,

Just a suggestion to make on your bad guys sir. The common LEO training is that a badguy with a knife who is within 7 yards of you is indeed a serious threat. Given that distance it is commonly tested that the badguy using a rubber knife can advance and strike the good guy before he can draw and get off two rounds. So within 7 yards there is indeed a threat there.

But at distances of 15 + yards, shooting someone who is merely standing with a knife is not something I would encourage you or any other members to train for. Unless the two folks with a knife are indeed advancing on you, I am afraid many prosecutors and grand juries, might well take a dim view on that action.

So my point is why train in a manner that gives you a mental preset on how to respond to a knife holder, that may not be a legal/justified shooting situation.

My suggestion is to either equip them with firearms or place them much closer to you if you are going to keep them armed with a knife. Otherwise, in my opinon, you are preparing yourself to become conditioned in training to do something that probably would not in my opinion be legal in real life.

Since I am a firm believer that we do in real life what we do in training, the course as you have explained it with armament and distances does concern me sir. Just food for thought.

twoguns
 

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Targets are probably too far out . A real world shooting my buddy was in a number of years ago, two attackers were within about an arm length and a half before he realized he was being assaulted. One approached from the front the other closed in from behind.

Professional bad guys have skills and will get close before they jump on you.

by the way, one attacker had a knife the other had a big screwdriver.
my friend turned and shot the one behind him then turned and shot the one closing from the front.

he got jail time for the later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Wonder why he got jail time for the last one...?

I do shoot this at 7yds as well. Another I practice involves near contact distance - hit the target with my palm while drawing simultaneously. I turn the gun sights out, palm up, and this locks my wrist. Very fast, accurate point shooting can be achieved this way at close distances.

I've gotten a bit shy about practicing at closer distances within the past couple weeks. I caught a bullet that came back at me - it didn't puncture the skin, but it did rip my jeans and gave me one heck of a welt. This was with .38spl semi-wadcutter ammo. I'm not too sure about being hit with a .45 coming back at me the same way. Seems like it might just stick.

You both have good points about the range; I just figure if I can do it at 15yds then 7yds or closer would be doable. Maybe my thinking is flawed, and maybe bullets coming back at me could be a good thing as it would make me seek cover more often.

I suppose I'll modify a few things and see what happens.

Thanks gents.

Josh <><
 

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I suppose because he had a gun, his attacker had a knife, and he wasn't in any immediate danger so he should have given the attacker time to retreat.

my buddy had fractions of a second to decide the jury took almost a week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Anderson,

I understand. This type of thing is why, in the end, I didn't pursue law enforcement as a career. Too many politics... you know what I'm saying, I'm sure.

Josh <><
 

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It is very difficult to decide these things without all the information but I can assure you (from personal experience) that screwdrivers are lethal weapons and if a person shows an inclination to do you in with one, and is within 21 feet (this is not the absolute maximum but it is the safe minimum) the case can be made that lethal force in self defense is justified.

Once again, not knowing all the circumstances, one cannot say. But it stresses the point that if you ever get involved in a lethal force case that is ajudicated get a lawyer who does lethal force cases routinely!!!!!

If you think good lawyers are expensive, try living as a felon.

Jim H.
 

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my friend is.

I should say that his second shot caught the attacker under the right arm as he was either ducking or turning to run. the jury thought that was significant
 
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