Most of you know that I rarely carry a 9mm. Having said that I use 115 grain Winch Silvertip in my C&S Hi-power. Bill Laughridge recommended it and I see no reason to change...in spite of some bad press from the FBI Miami shootings. Second choice is Federal 115 grain JHP (9BP).
Both have proven accurate and reliable.
If I can get some of the new Winch 127 grain +P+ I may give that a whirl.
Gotta admit, this combo makes failure to stop drills...easy.
OOPS, forgot to mention 147 gr. subsonics. Perfect companion to my suppressed UZI full auto...
I, too, used to be a "light and fast" guy with the 9mms, but after seeing a whole bunch of cases in which guys got killed by handguns, I got more interested in making sure the bullets penetrated enough to get to "the good stuff." Hence the heavy, slow bullets.
The Win Ranger 127-gr +P+ (which you can find for sale on Glock Talk, BTW) seems intriguing, too, but I've never bothered to follow up on it. I've got too many other things to buy, and I feel comfortable that the rounds I'm carrying will do the trick.
"The bullet through Platt's upper arm caused considerable damage. Besides rupturing the brachial blood vessels, there must have been significant nerve injury since several of the major nerves of the arm travel with the brachial vessels. However, at least a portion of the median nerve, which controls the muscle used to pull a trigger, had to have remained intact since Platt did continue firing his Mini-14. The large ragged exit wound from the arm and the jagged entry wound into the chest suggest a tumbling of the bullet as it entered the chest, passed through the fifth intercostal space, and stopped in the hilium (perhaps damaging either the pulmonary artery or vein or both.) A markedly deformed bullet can be seen in the hilar region in the chest X-ray (Fig. II-4). The right lung was totally collapsed and the right pleural space contained 1,300 ml of blood - a major life-threatening blood loss. Blood actively exited from the brachial vessels as evidenced by the large quantity of blood that Platt left in his wake and on Grogan/Dove's car (Plates II-C, D, E) as he moved around the car's right rear, then the rear, then the left rear, while shooting Hanlon and then Dove. No other vascular injury sustained by Platt was of sufficient magniitude to deposit the large quantity of blood found at the scene. Platt Wound B was probably a non-survivable injury."
--W. French Anderson, M.D. on the Miami FBI Firefight, 11 April 1986
The aforementioned wounds were caused by the "puny" 115-grain Winchester Silvertip bullet fired by Agent Dove. While the round did not stop Mr. Platt's ability to keep fighting, it could be argued that he should have been incapacitated. Other people in other circumstances probably would have been. Mr. Matix, Platt's partner, took a devastating headshot, yet for from one to two minutes he was able both to analyze situations and to move with purpose around the scene. He should have fallen down dead, but he didn't.
If any specific factor was to blame for the firefight not ending sooner, it could be that while "most" felons hold out hope of surviving, neither Platt nor Matix was particularly interested in going to prison, so they fought with a fatalistic ferocity few could muster. When you add a huge dose of adrenaline to an uncompromising decision not to be taken alive, it's likely that anything is possible.
Current 9mm carrying ammo for me is the 125-grain Cor Bon or the 124-grain standard Federal Hydra Shok; both were chosen for the extra penetration they offer, combined with good expansion to keep them in the target. An extra inch of penetration might very well have put Mr. Platt down for the count with that first solid hit. Or maybe not, but I prefer a bit more of an edge.
You're welcome, Stephen. I enjoy the information I get here, so if I have a chance to give a little something back, I'll do so. Dr. Anderson's full analysis of the Miami shootings is fascinating.
You know, my very first criterion for autoloader ammunition is always reliability of operation. After that I look at penetration, and finally expansion. For my money, expansion is necessary first to control penetration, and any increase in tissue damage or blood loss are secondary considerations. Basically I want a round that penetrates into and damages the "good stuff," then stays inside the target rather than completely perforating the bad guy and turning on what I call "downrange baby carriage homing mode."
Old load/current was/is a round called a CEPP SUPER (Controlled Expansion Police Projectile) 120gr FMJ Trunctuated cone loaded to NATO spec +P to +P+ depending on referenced source (1250 fps +) (penetration range was IIRC in the 16 to 20 inch region and expanded to about .40 - .50 diameter on average)
Don't really carry a 9x19mm much anymore (BHP) and though I still practice and carry it on occasion it is more or less sitting on a shelf in the weapons locker.
Corbon is typically pretty hot stuff. I don't have any figures for the G17 (yet), but here are some average velocities from other 9mm pistols using Corbon 125-gr. JHP +P. These are all based on 10 shots fired 10' from the chronograph screens:
The blunt ogive of the Sierra bullet currently used by Corbon can be problematic as some guns feed it well and others do not. The pistols mentioned above worked with this load and the visually identical 115-gr. version w/o problem. An aggressive expander, this load probably wouldn't penetrate an average male torso if that is a consideration, but it must be tested for reliability in any handgun and magazine(s) in which it might be carried for defensive purposes.
Corbon's 125-gr. JHP +P has proven more than sufficiently accurate out of this Mk III. It doesn't group this well in all 9mm pistols, but neither has it proven inaccurate for me in any 9mm I've shot it from.
This wet pack "wound channel" may or may not relate significantly to anything in the real world, but it is larger than some of the other 9mm loads fired into the same pack on the same day from the same gun.
Here is a recovered Corbon 125-gr. JHP bullet recovered from wet pack. It measures 0.52 x 0.48 x 0.37" tall and what could be found totaled 104 grains. Penetration averaged 6.5 to about 7". All bullets recovered showed similar fragmentation.
I really hope you're not carrying and depending on a VERY HOT round that you've only fored 3 of. If you really want to carry it, spend the money and at least runn a few full mags through the piece.
Trust and piece of mind are very important.
The profile of those Sierra bullets make them feed just short of empty cases.
That said, they are extremely good rounds. I had a pistol malfunction on me one time while shooting them. The breech failed to unlock so I got all the recoil- no slide absorbsion. It felt just like a .357mag.
But... while those G17's feed just about anything, I would run a box or two through it to be 100% sure.
Another good alternative with a slightly better feed profile is the Gold Dot. I like mine loaded by Black Hills to the +P(+) velocity of Cor