[randomman]

My pops picked up an FN made "Baby Browning" tonight in .25 ACP, we're interested in trying it out in the next few days at the range. Any suggested loads I should try for this thing to see how well it functions? How about hollow points, are they any good for a .25 or should I stay with FMJ?

Thanks,

-Rob

 

[jonnyc]

Get the hottest and heaviest FMJ you can find, and PRACTICE...a lot.

 

[Josh Smith]

What Jonny said.

Josh <><

 

[pff]

If they still make it, the Winchester pellet-point is the most reliable feeder I've found.

Regards,

Pat

 

[randomman]

I'll pick up a box of the best brand with the heaviest bullet I can find this next week. I'm only planning on function testing this one...it'll probably get traded off during the next gun show.

Thanks for the suggestions folks, we'll see how it fires later this week.

-Rob

 

[16gauge]

As far as reliable feeding goes, just about any ball ammo will do. I've tested most of the hollow/expanding points out there, and they have all fed well also in my Raven. Hoever, only one of them has ever 'expanded', and that was the Hornady 35 grain XTP. I've tried Speer gold dots, MSC, Glaser safety slugs (a big disappointment there), Blazer HPs, and Winchester pellet nose.

 

[oldgranpa]

16 ga,
great picture!!

How did you do that test? Like was it a wet phone book, water jugs, etc. What was the penetration?? To me, penetration is more important than expansion with .25cal.
So far I have only tried FMJ in my Raven. I'll try to find some of the Hornady.

As far as RandomMan's Baby Browning goes, I'll be really interested in his range results. The only good technical info I've found on it is a manual, part French, part English that seems to show an almost same firing mechanism as the Raven.
http://stevespages.com/pdf/browning_baby.pdf
I guess Raven (now Phoenix Raven) copied the design.
Since it's not a true double action striker fired action (like Glock or Kahr), I don't consider the Baby Browning or Raven safe to carry with a round in the chamber.
My Beretta 950 (now called Bobcat) is a hammer fired pistol that can be carried hammer down with a chambered round. I will not carry my Raven with a round in the chamber.
I hope RandomMan will tell us what he paid for that Browning. I'd try to trade it for a Beretta Bobcat hammer fired .25 instead. Mine (orig. 950 model) is flawless.
Just my opinions,
og

 

[randomman]

OG the gun is not a true "Baby" Browning. It is a FN model 1906, but the firing system is identical to the Baby Browning, being a striker fired single action pistol. This FN is one of the 2nd variations and it has a thumb safety, grip safety and magazine safety. It's probably safe to carry in a very secure manner with a round in the chamber, but I wouldn't dare want to drop it!

My pops picked this one up last night at an auction and it's a nickel plated model with about 80% finish left on it. He paid $115, a very good buy, in my opinion. I've checked it over today and expect it to be a good shooter, but I'm not expecting much in the way of accuracy beyond 7 yards. The grip safety of the gun makes it virtually impossible to grip the gun in any way and deactivate the grip safety, so I'll be expecting 5 or 6 inch groups at 7 yards, due to not being able to hold and control the little gun. Since you've requested it, I'll definitely keep you folks posted about how it does.

He picked up another piece last night as well, a Colt Frontier Scout in .22 Magnum, that I'll be reporting on as well...this one I'm particularly looking forward to shooting as I suspect it will be a very good shooter.

-Rob

 

[oldgranpa]

Considering "Baby Brownings" on auction sites go for $295 and up, that $115 was a very good price.
A new Beretta Bobcat can be had for less than $200 from some dealers. My 950 model was like new, turned in by a police officer who had orders to get something bigger for backup. New with box like that I had to give $230 for it, since it's now a collectors item. Dealer thru in a Don Hume backpocket holster made for it so I think I got a good deal, especially since the pistol fires without any problem.
og
Oh, BTW, my Beretta 950 is lighter weight than my Raven.

 

[16gauge]

OG;
The test media was wet phone books; my records show that the penetration was between 4" and 6", and the that largest slug expanded to .351 caliber and the smallest was .284. I'm curious as to how this might compare to .22LR hollow point ammo.
While the .25 ACP isn't anybodies choice for a primary (or maybe even a secondary) defense round, one should remember that at the time this cartridge was developed, it did have a niche (small, automatic, concealable handguns). It wasn't intended for 'combat', per se, but rather to hide out and put one in the back of your enemie's head when he wasn't looking after he overlooked that gun secreted somewhere on your person.
The most disappointing of the expanding .25s for me was the glaser....I expected great things from this round (via reputation).....all I found were a bunch of copper caps with shot in them that poured out when I pulled it out of the test media....no expansion whatsoever.

 

[oldgranpa]

16 ga,
really good info, thanks! The Hornady results with your Raven are better than any .22LR hollowpoint with a mini, 2" or less barrel revolver or pistol. Short barrel .22LR gets zero expansion with all I've tried, Stingers, Velocitors, Amer Eagle. QuikShok is the only .22LR round to do anything in a mini, it fragments with poor penetration. And the Raven even gets better penetration with FMJ than the mini .22LR with solid points.
The .22magnum is a different story and while a mini-mag doesn't get expansion, the penetration is excellent.
Go to the url on my sig and look at item 16.
og

 

[Guest]

I think you should stagger the magazine as follows

ball
ball
ball
ball
ball
ball

;o)

The 1905/6 is much easier to shoot than the baby, the grip is actually wider front to back and this extra grip circumference makes me grip it a little better.
The grips are also normally rounder, in other words a slight swell, while the baby grips are flat slabs.
My fingers go all the way around my baby's and crunch up against the base of my thumb while the "Vest Pocket" barely touches it.
While the baby has sights (tiny) and the vest pocket a groove, I seem to shoot better with the vest pocket.
The grip safety actually helps keep the hand away from the slide in recoil, I find scratches in my hand after firing a baby, its just that much closer to the hand.

I have shot Glasers, XTP's, Ball Expanding Hollow Point, Blaser PHP and then a multitude of ball through a few of my babies and vest pockets, and would choose a ball round over anything.
Although only measured in terms of felt recoil I think the wichester bxhp seems hot and should do well if you dont want to use ball.
Carefull of older ammo, I shot some FN ammo this last weekend that had become contaminated, primer ignition was close to half a second ! click...BANG

 

[oldgranpa]

thanks, shark, for your comments. I hafta agree that FMJ is the best way to go with a .25.

Question.....I'm looking at a Browning Baby, nickel plated, sim pearl grips, in pretty good condition. Dealer got his price down to $400. Do you recommend these for shooting or would I be wasting my time and only keep it for collecting??

I note the striker fire system is the same as my Raven. I guess Raven copied it after imports of the Browning were stopped in 1968. So I'm having a hard time justifying $400 for the same type .25.

Your advice will be appreciated.

og

 

[Guest]

If you dont have one in your collection, you have to get the other pistol Saive took from JM Browning and modified to his liking, just like the BHP.
Or get the gun that launched the caliber, the 1906 vest pocket.
That should read and I guess.
Then get all the american copies, Bauer et al.

$400 is a lot, I could sell you over 50 at about $100 if you could get them into your country.
I dont have 50 myself, but they are coming out of the woodwork at an alarming rate. I'm still keeping my eyes open for the rare alloy framed version.

 

[oldgranpa]

hi shark,
wow! wish you could rent a submarine and bring 50 or 100 of those "B-B's" over here. You could sell them easy for $200 and double your money!!

Well, I passed up the "baby", $400 too much for 40yrs old gun. Picked up the nice Colt "Junior" instead. Still old but it's hammer fired, a lot safer.

.25's may not be any good for CCW defense, but most of the used ones make good collector items since they are mainly discontinued models and soon will become rare. May be worth money someday, especially if in good condition and fires reliably.

So much for now.
og

 

[Guest]

Im a little late in this, but I would just like to add my two cents to the thread.

IMO, unless you can find a hot FMJ (50 grain bullet at no less than 800 FPS from the gun), I would go with Speers 35 grain Gold Dots. They dont expand, penitrate fairly well, and the extra velocity and shape make it more likely to penitrate bone, especially the skull, at most angles. 35 grain JHPs typically come out of the barrel at around 1000 FPS from the Raven. I think Stephen A. Camp reported just under 1000 FPS with the XTP.

I would avoid most FMJ ammo, since I dont think they are loaded hot enough for penitration, and although lighter, a non expanding JHP would most likely out penitrate a underpowered heavy FMJ. Goldenloki.com used to have a section on the .25 Raven, and IIRC the mentioned that he only got 720 FPS with the WWB 50 grain FMJ load from his Raven.

Ive been interested in getting a Raven for a while now, and wouldnt mind hiding it somewhere around the house as a quick access gun. When I do, my choice of ammo will be the 35 grain Gold Dots.

I think someone mentioned Winchesters ammunition, which I think is called Powerpoint. It is very similar in design to Corbons PowRball, weighs 45 grains, and is loaded on the warm side. It sounds like a pretty impressive load to me, and is probably worth trying.

 

[oldgranpa]

thanks for that excellent suggestion, GlockFan, makes a lot of sense. I will look for some GoldDot and do a comparison with FMJ next chance I get to take a wetpack to the range.
Cheers,
og

 

[oldgranpa]

Just saw this on another place......
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/275/1/42

good grief! if that sorta thing is true then we've been hoodwinked into thinking .25acp is ineffective.

FWIW,
og

 

[pff]

Been a lot of tombstones bought with a .25ACP.

First person I watched die from gunshot took a single .25 just above the main pump, puncturing several blood vessels. Went right down, but took a while to bleed out.

Then there was a guy I worked with who took 6 or 7 scattered around the chest cavity and was back to work in a couple of days.

Had a murder-suicide locally with one where the guy popped his ex thru her open mouth as she was screaming at him. DRT. He then tried to kill himself and he made it to the ER with one in the head.

Unpredictable.

Regards,

Pat

 

[Stephen A. Camp]

Hello. This mirrors what I'd seen. In some instances recipients of one (or more) .25 ACP rounds (all FMJ) either showed little immediate slowing down or little initial discomfort if intoxicated. Yet in another instance, a knife-wielding felon was DRT with a single shot through the heart.