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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has the 147 grain 9mm loads shown improvements in expansion over the earlier versions? I believe the 124 grain mid range is probably the most versatile, but I like the idea of more weight.

I have been carrying Winchester White Box 147 grain jhp self defense rounds and it seems to be a good performer. I like that fact I can buy a box of 50 for around $11.00. I can actually afford to practice with what I carry. I used to use the same brand in 115 jhp, but that's just a little too lite.

Your opinions?


John
 

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Wadcutter,

There have indeed been improvements. However, please look at the differences between new and old bullet technology.

The load you mention is a Silvertip for all intents and purposes. It is old technology and needs speed to operate correctly. The 147gr version may or may not expand.

New technology bullets, such as the Golden Saber, Gold Dot, Hydra-Shok (not Hi-Shok), etc. are made to expand at lower speeds and are more consistant.

Old technology bullets rely on hydrostatic pressure entering and unclogged hollow cavity. Once the pressure in the cavity exceeds the bullet's strength it then becomes hydrodynamic, pressing the bullet into a mushroom shape. At lower speeds the hydrostatic pressure often does not reach the critical point, forcing the bullet to open.

New technology bullets vary in design but are essentially made to do the same thing: Increase pressure along the cavity's walls. The Hydra-Shok achieves this by using a post in the center which directs the hydrodynamic pressure against the pre-stressed walls instead of the back of the cavity, forcing the bullet to open. Other bullets achieve this by different means.

However, all expanding bullets are sensative to one extent or another to speed in order to operate correctly.

My advice is, in that bullet range, to buy some 147gr +P something, or better yet, back off on the weight and go with the 124-127gr range.

Federal C9bp (Hi-Shok) expands well and can be had in 50rnd boxes relatively cheaply. However, 115gr works best and I do not know if they make 124 or 147gr versions.

A compromise would be the 135gr Hydra-Shok bullet. They proliferate around here though the city police use the 147gr version, standard pressure, as their duty load.

What it boils down to is this: Those bullets MIGHT expand but don't count on it.

<><,

Josh
 
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May I also suggest the Winchester Ranger T-series 147 grain hollowpoint ammunition. By all accounts that I've read, it is one of the best that is available. Even though it is primarily marketed to law enforcement personnel, it is readily available to the general public from various sources. FWIW, this is my ammo of choice for my Kahr PM9.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm not a big fan of Federal nor the 115 grain weight. I have never heard of a 147 grain +P loading. I didn't think there was enough case capacity to increase the pressure any.

Of course I do have a few boxes of WW Ranger 127 grain +P+, so I'm not exactly hurting for ammo. But with winter coming, I like the idea of a heavier bullet.

John
 

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Hello. While I've not been a "big" fan of the 147's in 9mm, I do think there's probably not much difference between them
at a bit over a thousand feet/sec and a standard pressure 124 at but 60 to 100 ft/sec more. The caveat is that the 147-gr. be either a Winchester Ranger T, Speer Gold Dot, or a Remington Golden Saber.


These 147-gr. Golden Sabers were fired into super-saturated newsprint that had soaked for 24 hours and was allowed to drain 30 mins before shooting. The bullet seldom lost over a grain or two. Average expanded diameter was usually about 0.61".


The GS's expanded about the same in water and the average velocity from a Browning Hi Power was 1033 ft/sec.


This is the Winchester RA9T 147-gr. after impacting water. It's performance was consistent in this and soaked newsprint and it averaged 980 ft/sec from a Hi Power.


Speer's 147-gr. Gold Dot performed about like the others. I have not done any shooting with these through obstacles like automobile glass, etc, but suspect that they perform pretty similarly. I'm told that the Winchester performs very well under a wide range of test criteria from 4-layers of denim to shooting through wall board, and so forth. The Speer ammo averaged 1019 ft/sec from the same Hi Power.

All three of these heavy-for-caliber loads functioned flawlessly though my Hi Power(s). Recoil is mild and quick, accurate repeat shots are quite easy when using it. Were I going with this bullet weight, I'd pick the load that after proving itself reliable in my gun gave the best groups. I do like the 1000 ft/sec + speeds of the Remington and Speer better than the 980 ft/sec for the Winchester, but that probably doesn't matter. I've neither read nor seen anything negative concerning the Winchester RA9T.

Best.
 

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John,

I respectfully submit your reasoning is a bit backward.

Winter equals heavy clothing. You're seeking penetration and expansion.

However, with old technology bullets, this is very iffy. The cavities clog easier and speed is needed to clear them out- if possible. Speed is not the 147gr's strong point.

The rounds which Mr. Camp has tested and posted are new technology and may be expected to do better in the expansion area while retaining penetration.

Please think on this as your life may depend upon it at some point which we all hope will not come.

<><,

Josh
 
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