Hello everyone, interested in hearing about the 10mm for defense use against cougar or (small) black bear, or even short range deer hunting? What bullets, factory or hand loads, and so forth. So far, I'm thinking about Accurate #9 and Hornady XTPs as heavy as available, YOMD.
10mm for woods use?
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Heya Dave,
Friend of mine dumped two deer with a Grock 20 a few years ago. Used Georgia Arms 155gr Gold dots. Blew an impressive hole just below the impact surface, and both exited on broadside shots. DRT .
For defensive work against bears and feral pigs I'd want a bit slower expansion and more penetration.
Hope this helps a little.
Regards,
Pat
Friend of mine dumped two deer with a Grock 20 a few years ago. Used Georgia Arms 155gr Gold dots. Blew an impressive hole just below the impact surface, and both exited on broadside shots. DRT .
For defensive work against bears and feral pigs I'd want a bit slower expansion and more penetration.
Hope this helps a little.
Regards,
Pat
1911dave and pff,
Good post. A lot of folks like to compare the 10mm to the .41 Mag. While it comes close, in some forms it doesn't quite make it. With good placement and bullet construction there is no reason a 10mm can't function in the roles you describe. With woods critters I'd go for penetration vice expansion. I you get both so much the better!
Somehow I see semi-auto's in a defensive roll (anti personnel) and the revolver in a more balanced light. Good for protection and hunting. Plus being reliable with high grade hard cast bullets. Accurate, reliable, and powerful.
Wes
Good post. A lot of folks like to compare the 10mm to the .41 Mag. While it comes close, in some forms it doesn't quite make it. With good placement and bullet construction there is no reason a 10mm can't function in the roles you describe. With woods critters I'd go for penetration vice expansion. I you get both so much the better!
Somehow I see semi-auto's in a defensive roll (anti personnel) and the revolver in a more balanced light. Good for protection and hunting. Plus being reliable with high grade hard cast bullets. Accurate, reliable, and powerful.
Wes
Thanks for the replies, pff and weshowe! I don't really know that cougars are very much tougher than a good sized deer, though I agree I'm going to err on the side of penetration and load 200gr XTPs at a skosh over 1200. I know that's what I'll want for bear, unless there's a JSP out there I'm unaware of.
Ted Nugent is a big fan of the 10mm and of his Glock 20. I read an article he wrote some time ago about shooting an African warthog with the 10 while on Safari.
I've always kind of thought that if you felt comfortable shooting a .357 at something, the 10mm would be something of an improvement, but it ain't a .41 Magnum and shouldn't be treated like one.
I've always kind of thought that if you felt comfortable shooting a .357 at something, the 10mm would be something of an improvement, but it ain't a .41 Magnum and shouldn't be treated like one.
Thanks LelandRay. I feel exactly the same about 10mm. A bit more penetration, bore diameter and bullet weight than is typical in .357, in a flatter package with 40% more ammo per load. It's not a .41 mag, and it can be carried IWB so as not to alarm the tree huggers when I'm out and about.
Erich, thanks for the post. Just looked at Double Tap's website a few days ago. I too just bought a 1076, how does yours "shoot?" Mine doesn't shoot as well as a stock P35 MKIII, or my accurized Colt .45 (duh). Have you shot their 200 gr hardcast SWC flying tomato can?
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No, but it looks neat! McNett announced another run of it a couple weeks ago on Glock Talk, and I almost bought some (before I realized that I should calm down since the XTPs would almost certainly handle anything I'd run across).
I have been pleasantly surprised with my 1076.
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It belonged to a friend of mine who is another .41 mag fan. He had a couple of these 1076s that he was selling off, and this was the nicer of the two. It had some problem with the trigger, though, so he sent it back to S&W for repairs. When it came back, it seemed to have had a trigger job on it. Certainly it has the nicest trigger of the dozens of Third Gen S&W pistols I've fired.
The crown of the barrel (also usually a weak area for S&W autos) is very nice as well. As a result of the good trigger and the good crown, this 1076 has been very accurate for me. One hole at 10 yds - about as accurate as the lamented .40 BHP that I foolishly traded years ago. About as accurate as the SIG-Sauers I've had. More accurate than other 3rd Gen Smiths I've had.
I've only fired it with DT ammo (I put some heavy-duty Wolff springs on board first): the 180-gr/1250fps practice load and the 200-gr XTP/1250s carry load. Both seem to shoot to the same point of aim (?) at 10 yds and group identically. I'm fortunate in that a local store actually carries DT ammo right near Web list price, so I don't have to constantly pay shipping from DT.
So, I might have an uncommonly good 1076. It has night sights, too, and came with six mags for $375. I'm pretty much a happy camper!
I have been pleasantly surprised with my 1076.
It belonged to a friend of mine who is another .41 mag fan. He had a couple of these 1076s that he was selling off, and this was the nicer of the two. It had some problem with the trigger, though, so he sent it back to S&W for repairs. When it came back, it seemed to have had a trigger job on it. Certainly it has the nicest trigger of the dozens of Third Gen S&W pistols I've fired.
The crown of the barrel (also usually a weak area for S&W autos) is very nice as well. As a result of the good trigger and the good crown, this 1076 has been very accurate for me. One hole at 10 yds - about as accurate as the lamented .40 BHP that I foolishly traded years ago. About as accurate as the SIG-Sauers I've had. More accurate than other 3rd Gen Smiths I've had.
I've only fired it with DT ammo (I put some heavy-duty Wolff springs on board first): the 180-gr/1250fps practice load and the 200-gr XTP/1250s carry load. Both seem to shoot to the same point of aim (?) at 10 yds and group identically. I'm fortunate in that a local store actually carries DT ammo right near Web list price, so I don't have to constantly pay shipping from DT.
So, I might have an uncommonly good 1076. It has night sights, too, and came with six mags for $375. I'm pretty much a happy camper!
Darn, Erich, it wasn't an FBI or LEO pistol, was it? I am into mine for $425 with four mags; picked up new 5th.
My crown was a bit rough; I fixed that. Trigger breaks after the usual cruchenticker take up at about 5 lbs, crisp, no creep even without lube.
It had a Hogue grip (rubber) two piece, no finger grooves, originally for a 1006, I had to further relieve it for the decocker. Ended up buying the factory FBI "palm swell" grip for it from Smith; they still have some of those and the straight ones (yuck), the curved backstraps are history.
I've shot non factory new brass loads, 180JHP @1050, 200FMJ @ 1050, Winch STHP [email protected], just bought a box of Hornady 180XTPs to try, but want to use the DT stuff next.
Felt recoil is less than that of a heavily modded Delta I once owned, probably due to the more gentle radius of the backstrap, esp. with the Hogues, which are nicer to shoot but are typically tacky and a bit tough to position one's hand on correctly on the draw every time.
Which Wolff spring do you run? Thinking about 18's myself.
My crown was a bit rough; I fixed that. Trigger breaks after the usual cruchenticker take up at about 5 lbs, crisp, no creep even without lube.
It had a Hogue grip (rubber) two piece, no finger grooves, originally for a 1006, I had to further relieve it for the decocker. Ended up buying the factory FBI "palm swell" grip for it from Smith; they still have some of those and the straight ones (yuck), the curved backstraps are history.
I've shot non factory new brass loads, 180JHP @1050, 200FMJ @ 1050, Winch STHP [email protected], just bought a box of Hornady 180XTPs to try, but want to use the DT stuff next.
Felt recoil is less than that of a heavily modded Delta I once owned, probably due to the more gentle radius of the backstrap, esp. with the Hogues, which are nicer to shoot but are typically tacky and a bit tough to position one's hand on correctly on the draw every time.
Which Wolff spring do you run? Thinking about 18's myself.
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I was trying to remember that when I posted this a.m. - let me go check what I wrote on the 10mm Talk forum back when the spring was on order from DT . . . argh, I can't find any reference to the spring.
I have the packaging at home, but I'm pretty sure it was a 22-lb Wolff spring.
No, it didn't seem to be a LEO pistol and it was not a Feebie pistol.
Would you mind telling me more about your feelings vis-a-vis the palm swell stocks? I've been thinking about getting a set . . .
I have the packaging at home, but I'm pretty sure it was a 22-lb Wolff spring.
No, it didn't seem to be a LEO pistol and it was not a Feebie pistol.
Would you mind telling me more about your feelings vis-a-vis the palm swell stocks? I've been thinking about getting a set . . .
If you have medium sized hands, they reduce the length of reach to the trigger, and provide more finger purchase/wraparound for your whole hand, because, they have (roughly) the ergos of a CZ75 with inset recurve for the web of your hand, and just enough of a curve to the top of the backstrap to fill your palm. There is no notable palmswell on the sides, just a bit of an indent for one's thumbs. I don't think they feel as good as the Hogues for shooting but they also don't print on my clothes or impede that initial hand placement on the draw due to their relative slickness.
Sure would love to locate some of the FBI back-up 11 or 15 round mags...good luck!!!!
Sure would love to locate some of the FBI back-up 11 or 15 round mags...good luck!!!!
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Yeah, me too!
Thanks for the info on the "palmswells." I really didn't want to get stocks that would increase the overall thickness of the gun - I'm glad to hear that I'm mostly looking at a place for my thumb.
I may have to get on the horn to Springfield later today!
Thanks for the info on the "palmswells." I really didn't want to get stocks that would increase the overall thickness of the gun - I'm glad to hear that I'm mostly looking at a place for my thumb.
I may have to get on the horn to Springfield later today!
Already inquired with Smith on those mags...no got. Wouldn't have thought so.
The stocks are more oval than anything, much the same contour viewed from the magwell end as 1911 grips.
Which tritiums do you have, Trijicon?
We're getting increasingly off thread here BTW ;-)
The stocks are more oval than anything, much the same contour viewed from the magwell end as 1911 grips.
Which tritiums do you have, Trijicon?
We're getting increasingly off thread here BTW ;-)
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Let me rectify that . . .
When I carry my 1076 in the woods, it wears TruGlo sights.
Honestly, I don't like them nearly as much as the Trijcon Novaks or the Ameriglos, but they were what had been installed on the gun by the last owner.
The reason I was going to call S&W was to see about the new stocks, not about the phantom 15-round mags. I've seen photos of them online, but I doubt I'll ever see a big stick in the flesh.
I think I may call S&W about the stocks (and I do appreciate your detailed description), since I pretty much just carry the 1076 in the woods - so super-concealment of the heavy thing is not much of an issue.
Man, I wish I was hiking now, instead of here at work. :-/
When I carry my 1076 in the woods, it wears TruGlo sights.
Honestly, I don't like them nearly as much as the Trijcon Novaks or the Ameriglos, but they were what had been installed on the gun by the last owner.
The reason I was going to call S&W was to see about the new stocks, not about the phantom 15-round mags. I've seen photos of them online, but I doubt I'll ever see a big stick in the flesh.
I think I may call S&W about the stocks (and I do appreciate your detailed description), since I pretty much just carry the 1076 in the woods - so super-concealment of the heavy thing is not much of an issue.
Man, I wish I was hiking now, instead of here at work. :-/
G
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·Use a 22lb. spring in your 1076, it will run perfectly!
'-Mike
'-Mike
Use a 22lb. spring in your 1076, it will run perfectly!
'-Mike[/quote]
Even with the lighter density loads available from most other sources? My "walking around" load is 180JHP @ 1100, with the Silvertip in the woods, and so far haven't tried your stuff...yet. But I will...
'-Mike[/quote]
Even with the lighter density loads available from most other sources? My "walking around" load is 180JHP @ 1100, with the Silvertip in the woods, and so far haven't tried your stuff...yet. But I will...
G
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·Yes, you can run Blazers without a hiccup. They run about 965fps from my 1076.
-mike
-mike
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