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Old 03-21-2011, 08:36 PM   #1
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Walther PPS, P99, and PPQ

I have a Walther PPS which, although I've never seen it listed in any Walther literature as such, is (I'm pretty sure) DAO. In their brochure on the P99QA, Walther says that the striker is partially pre-cocked and that pulling the trigger completes the cocking action and then fires the gun. This sounds like to me DAO. The new PPQ, on the other hand, is listed by Walther as having a striker that is "100% pre-cocked." If this is so, this sounds like a single action and a lawyer might try to make the case that you were carrying a fully cocked handgun and fired it through negligence. In most states, a handgun that is considered DAO does not lend itself so easily to a charge of negligent discharge.



So, does anybody know if the PPS, the P99QA, and the PPQ are DOA or single-action?



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Old 03-21-2011, 10:57 PM   #2
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Walther PPS, P99, and PPQ

I have a 9mm PPS and it is in my opinion a single action auto. I say this because the trigger pull is the same for every shot just like my HK P7M8. The term DOA is somewhat misleading IMO. It is used to describe an auto pistol with a long trigger pull just like on a double action revolver. In reality it is just another type of single action. I'm sure that some will disagree with me on this but unless an trigger action has two modes of fire such as SA/DA then it is a single action.





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Old 03-22-2011, 12:23 AM   #3
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To me, if a trigger does more than drop the hammer, it isn't single action. Examples: a 1911 is SA, an HK P7 is SA, a BHP is SA, a Kahr is a partial pre loaded striker fired DA. A true DAO completely cocks the hammer or striker and drops the hammer, like a "hammerless" revolver.

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Old 03-22-2011, 03:19 AM   #4
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Walther PPS, P99, and PPQ

crash,



I purchased my PPK/S in September 2001. The spec sheet says that it is a Traditional Double Action pistol.



To my knowledge it was made in Germany. Smith & Wesson (S&W) began manufacturing the PPK and PPK/S under license in 2002.





I purchased my PP99QA in October 2001. The spec sheet says that it is Double Action Only (Quick Action). It to was made in Germany.



One write-up about this pistol relates the following:

"This variant has a Glock style trigger system with a pre-loaded internal striker. When the trigger is pulled, the striker is fully cocked and released, firing the pistol. The trigger travel is approximately 8 mm (0.3 in) with a trigger pull of approximately 38 N (8.5 lbf). The trigger pull is consistent in length and force from the first shot to the last."



It is my opinion only and not fact that once S&W was licensed by Walther to make these pistols in the U.S. in 2002, changes were made to the original designs and the American made pistols are somewhat different than the older ones made in Germany.



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Old 03-22-2011, 06:55 AM   #5
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Walther PPS, P99, and PPQ

I wanted to take a stab at this topic. It is my understanding that the ATF technical staff was the one responsible for designating the "safe action" style found on Glocks and similar handguns as DAO. This makes no sense to me at all but there may be a reason for it..



A single action (SA) handgun is one in which the trigger mechanism has but one action (to fire the gun). On a double action (DA), the trigger mechanism no only fires the gun (action one) but it also cocks the hammer. DA/SA makes the first shot fired by two actions from the trigger and then converts to single action.



It appears that the Glock type actions are brought to "full cock" by trigger action and then released to fire. I believe that the XD actions are classified as single action.



I think we may be trapped by our own inadequate definitions.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:15 AM   #6
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Walther PPS, P99, and PPQ

I'm with the OberstLt in that I consider "safe actions" (first encountered in Glocks) to be one-and-a-half actions - I would call this a separate category, but ATFE will do what it does.



These are the commonly used meanings of the terms, as I've seen them used since the '80s:



Double action refers to lifting and dropping the hammer on the pull of the trigger.

Single action drops the hammer with the pull of the trigger.

Traditional double action is DA for the first shot, SA thereafter

DAO is only double action

Safe Action has a partially precocked striker and the trigger pull completes the cocking and releases the striker. I suppose this term could be used to describe things like the LCP and LC9 as well.



I would refer to the PPS and P99 as having Safe Action triggers. The PPQ, if it's really 100% cocked (and I have no idea whether it is), would be a single action - just like those Croatian Springfield Armory imports.

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Old 03-22-2011, 05:23 PM   #7
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Walther PPS, P99, and PPQ

O.K., I'm good with calling my PPS and a P99QA "Safe-Actions." Since they don't totally cock the striker and release it, I guess that really doesn't qualify them as "double-actions." According to Walther literature I've read, the striker of the PPQ is "100% pre-cocked," just as on the Springfield Croatian pistols which, in my mind, makes them single-actions. As I stated before, carrying a single-action type handgun, especially one without a safety, could result in a charge of negligent discharge in a defense shooting (or so I've been told....).



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