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Old 03-30-2009, 09:07 AM   #1
 
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before

I saw a malfunction the other day that I had never seen before. Ironically, the malfunction occured while practicing malfunction drills. A student shooter was practicing clearing a failure to extract drill (empty shell in chamber, live shell pushed in on it). What ended up happening was the empty shell casing got turned around and was forced into the chamber backwards. At this point, the gun was completely out of commission and unfixable without punching the bore with a cleaning rod.



I believe the cause of this malfunction was induced by the shooter but I didn't see it so not sure. I believe the shooter did not "attack the slide" when clearing it out. He probably "babied" it allowing the shell to stick around and get backwards.



Two learning points come out of this: First, aggressively run the slide to clear it and secondly, carry a backup gun.



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Old 03-30-2009, 12:22 PM   #2
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before

I have to ask is there any possibility that the student was using a .40 pistol and somehow an empty 9mm case got thrown into the equation?
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Old 03-30-2009, 01:31 PM   #3
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before



Quote:
Originally Posted by abninftr
I have to ask is there any possibility that the student was using a .40 pistol and somehow an empty 9mm case got thrown into the equation?
Yeah, that's my first thought as well.
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Old 03-30-2009, 01:38 PM   #4
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before

I have seen this malfunction (not jam as that is something we eat on toast) before. Believe it or not, it does happen and the only way to clear it is to go to back up in action ("one can be none but two is one", the Guru of the Ranch). But, if you are a serious shooter, you should never, ever go shooting without your range rod to clear squib loads or bad things like this. Also, for a rifle , you should consider a broken shell extractor. A bore snake is also otherwise required by law.



The classic Type III malfunction drill (double feed) needs to be executed without riding the slide. Strip the mag and work the action hard twice. This was a valuable lesson all round.

There are some rimless designs like the 45 ACP and the 9mm that will actually fit backwards in larger chambers (like in a Glock). Heck, some of them will go in backwards on my reloading case gauges!



This was a great post and should remind us all to work the slide with authority at all times. Slam that pup to the stop and let 'er fly!
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Old 03-30-2009, 03:33 PM   #5
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before

Thanks for the heads up and observations. I've had any number of "stovepipe" type malfunctions where the case is perfectly turned around with the case head and primer facing forwards in the ejection port, the empty case mouth facing backwards, the whole case is pinched between the slide and the cartridge in the magazine is stripped about half-way out of the magazine... I could see where I might do something like pop the empty into the chamber on pulling out the magazine and not racking the slide sufficiently. Or something.





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Old 03-30-2009, 03:59 PM   #6
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before



Quote:
Originally Posted by bdsmith32
... What ended up happening was the empty shell casing got turned around and was forced into the chamber backwards. At this point, the gun was completely out of commission and unfixable without punching the bore with a cleaning rod.



...I believe the shooter did not "attack the slide" when clearing it out. He probably "babied" it allowing the shell to stick around and get backwards.



...


I would be inclined to think the student may have just rammed (with his hand still on the slide, rather than letting it "spring" forward) the empty case back into the chamber after it spun around in place.



I once had a snap-cap do a perfect backflip on ejection and end up right back in the chamber facing backwards (during a timed test, no less). In my case, it didn't get "permanently" stuck in the chamber, but it didn't come out right away either. A couple violent shakes while working the slide got it out. Might have been a good point to go to a back-up, but this was a drill/test on malfs & reloads, so the point was to get it running again.



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Old 03-30-2009, 07:29 PM   #7
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before



Friend had a 1911 that would pull that trick in the middle of a string. I'll ask him what fixed it.



Carried a rod in his back pocket at matches.,





Regards,



Pat

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Old 03-31-2009, 06:56 AM   #8
 
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before

The pistol was a Springfield XD .45acp. The empty was a .45. Again, I only saw the aftermath when we all gathered 'round. For some reason, I forgot to ask the student what he did with the slide just prior to the malfunction.



Good discussion. I appreciate the feedback.
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Old 03-31-2009, 06:48 PM   #9
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before

I've seen it happen in matches a couple times. Not coincidentally (I'd reckon) there was a wall/barricade to the right of the shooter in each case. Empty bounced up, ricoched off the wall, and landed backwards in the ejection port immediately after a subsequent shot was fired.



Funny at the time, but of course only bragging rights were endangered by those episodes, not anybody's well-being.
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Old 07-20-2009, 09:26 PM   #10
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Pistol Jam that I'd never seen before

I actually did this yesterday with my Springfield EMP 9mm. I was handing the weapon to a friend to show it to him, and dropped the mag and went to clear the live round from the chamber before handing it over. I did not work the slide as aggressively as I should have, and the round flipped and jammed into the barrel backwards as I let the slide go!



I was very reluctant to use a rod of any sort to push on the primer end. I dismantled the weapon and used a pair of needle nose pliers to carefuly twist the round out.



Learned my lesson!
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