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Old 08-23-2007, 04:06 AM   #1
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Which would you recommend?

Hi there all,



My son-in-law called yesterday from Charleston, SC to inquire about getting a second handgun to be used as a CWP piece, range gun and home defense handgun.



He currently owns a Star BM that I gave him for his birthday last year and he decided that he wanted to add another "9" to his small collection of firearms.



After thoughtful consideration, I gave him my "opinion" and limited the pros/cons to the choices displayed in the poll.



Keeping with the choices in the poll, what would have been your recommendation?



I have to go out today and get some prices in the area to call him with.



Chris
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Old 08-23-2007, 05:30 AM   #2
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Which would you recommend?

Hi Chris,



Either would be great, and I've used both for the uses you ennumerate. I voted for the Beretta because - to me - they have nicer triggers and shoot slightly better.



Both guns should function equally well. As you know, I don't care for the Glock's trigger feel (though I can't deny the reset is short and I'm certainly well acquainted with its trigger and know one can do accurate work with it) or its striker-firing or lack of second-strike capability. On the other hand, the Glock is a bit smaller in all dimensions, and feels it, though - that might certainly be a consideration for concealment (though I've had no problems concealing a Beretta - but one does have to dress for it, as one would have to for a Glock 17).



Anyway: tastes great/less filling. Both are fine guns that would fill the roles set forth. Personal preference as to action type should be the only concern here - I'd get him whichever he preferred.
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Old 08-23-2007, 06:56 AM   #3
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Which would you recommend?

Hello Chris,



Boy, that is a tough call. I'm not sure how experienced a shooter he is, so that will be a factor. Speaking strictly *for myself* (i.e. not a formally trained, highly skilled, or very proficient shooter) I like the simplicity of operation of the Glock, plus the consistent trigger. So those features factor into my initial preferences for the Glock. Esthetically, and pragmatically--since I have a Beretta Cx4 carbine--I would go with the Beretta for magazine compatibility. I don't care for conventional DA/SA, but many folks are OK with it. Of course, other folks don't much care for polymer/plastic pistols, which might be something that would play into the decision. I'd just add that the Glock 19 would merit a close look over the full-sized 17. Seems to me that Charleston gets mighty hot, so concealing a full-size pistol might be deciding factor.
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:14 AM   #4
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Which would you recommend?

G17. Easier to carry concealed in the semitropics of the Charleston area.
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Old 08-23-2007, 08:34 AM   #5
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Which would you recommend?

I dont make recomendations, I am all for folks researching and making up their own mind. A defensive pistol is a life and death decision and it should be made with more care than you give to buying a house or a car.



As for observations one should probably consider; both are fairly well made guns though the Beretta, being a very slightly moderninzed version of a P-38, is not such a hot design for fighting (wouldst that the bean counters who selcect pistols knew something about fighting).



OTOH, the Glock is carried "Cocked and Unlocked"! It takes a tremedous amount of training...far more than with the 1911 or that Star BM (which is actually a very good gun - better, I think than both of these options overall). Not that a Glock is not a good gun, it is. It is reliable, durable and accurate. A lot of my students have trouble with Glocks in that they point too high and the trigger finger rubs the frame back behind the first joint and pushes it to the side if one is not careful (right handers shoot left with them and left handers shoot right). But that can be overcome with diligent practice and training.



Negligent Discharges with striker fired pistols (Glock, XD, M&P) are far outnumbering those with 1911s or DAO guns. They have far outstipped even the former "king of the ND" the DA/SA auto. Still and all this is not the gun's fault...it is a lack of training or attention to detail on the part of the operator.



I am forced to work with more Berettas than any other pistol in my work. I can tell you we see a tremendous amount of malfunctions. The majority are operator error - that slide mounted safety can easily get you very dead! The next problem is still the operators responsibility and that is lube - or rather lack of it. They do not run dry for very long. The 3rd problem is breakage. An armorer friend had 600 M9s in his inventory, all with less than 6,000 rounds through them (actully 500 had less than 3,000 rounds)....25% of them were broken to the extent they had to go back to depot for repair. However, they had been dry fired a lot so that might have been the main problem. Also they had the old locking block which was prone to breakage, the new one is not.



With a new style locking block and by not dry firing without some sort of snap cap (or just an old fired case with the dead primer still in it) the gun should not break nearly as often. The only thing you can do about the tendency to inadvertently slip that safety on is get a "G" model which has a spring loaded "dingus" or get the D model which is DAO.



Just random thoughts and just personal experience. As always Your Mileage May Vary.



Jim H.



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Old 08-23-2007, 12:09 PM   #6
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Which would you recommend?

Howdy Mr. Chris,



Man oh man, you worked hard to make this one really hard for me sir. I have experienced personal problems with both brands in the past. I have also seen numerous problems from both brands on various ranges. So the bottom line for me personally, is I would not suggest either brand for home defense/ccw carry.



But that is not what you asked, so if I only have those two options, I would lean towards the Beretta. The grips fit my hands a bit better, and I like the second strike capability it offers over the Glock for defensive duties. I also have to agree that carry a Glock is essentially carrying "cocked and unlocked". At one point, my agency transitioned over to Glocks - over the objections of our firearms unit personnel who had not selected the Glock for issuance. Once issued, that was the first time the firearms unit specifically prohibited a duty weapon being slipped into a waistband without a holster for undercover work, as they said it was simply too dangerous to do so with the Glock.



Although I really think for his intended usage, you and he should simply meet at a gun store and handle a lot of various platforms. What works well for person A, B and C, may end up feeling terrible to person D. He may discover that neither brand fits his hand well at all, or that both feel great. But he really should spend some time handling various platforms for the one that feels "natural" to him in my view.



I think if I were creating a poll for him personally sir, the choices would be Sig, CZ 75B, BHP or 1911 in a pistol. But that is not what you requested.



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Old 08-23-2007, 12:18 PM   #7
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Which would you recommend?

Hello Mr. Twoguns,



My son-in-law called me yesterday and told me these were the two finalists in his decision. I would have dearly enjoyed pointing him in the direction of a BHP, CZ 75B or SIG, but to be honest--why would I want to spare him the years of enjoyment ahead in trying everything???





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Old 08-23-2007, 02:37 PM   #8
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Which would you recommend?

Good point Chris. IMO both pistols are absurdly oversize for caliber (think BHP). The G-17 is blocky and large, but simple to operate. The 92-F is huge, has a long double action/reset and the safety operates backwards from his Star BM. Neither is a decent candidate for concealed carry-unless it's winter or you are extremely large. Having owned both, I would vote for the Glock.
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Old 08-25-2007, 08:34 AM   #9
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Which would you recommend?

Looks like I'm casting my vote kinda late, but I would go with the Glock for its increased magazine capacity, slimness, durability, and (in my experiences) outstanding reliability. Jim and Twogun's safety concerns should definately be noted, but with the proper training and mindset the Glocks are safe enough. As has been already mentioned, the 19 would be better for CCW and matches the mag capacity of the Beretta. All this being said, I don't own a Glock and might never, because they just feel like a small brick in my hands. ~Pistolero
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Old 08-25-2007, 09:36 AM   #10
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Which would you recommend?

I prefer the Glock 17 to all hicap wonder guns. The M9 always felt more bricklike to me than the G17 but I have little use for all of the hammer drops and the like. Proper training will prevent most safety issues over any technological solution in my experience. Some will quibble over the caliber but until one moves up to the 45, I just don't think it matters much given modern ammo. Now, the G21 - there is a brick!
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