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Old 11-30-2015, 03:33 PM   #11
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Hey Folks,

Not to get too off topic, but Canik makes their polymer frame TPS-9 into an incredible shooting deal! I've shot one and they are fantastic as reported by fellow member Vant here:

https://www.handgunsandammunition.com...nik-tp9sa.html

I wouldn't hesitate to look at the series that JayPee started this thread about. CZ's are no longer the "value" pistol that they once were and their price points have skyrocketed over the past several years.

Chris
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Old 11-30-2015, 06:30 PM   #12
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I bought a different Turkish gun - A Sar B6P, about a year ago. It's a polymer CZ "clone". A buddy had one, and I shot it. I was pretty impressed. When I found out it sold for $249.00, I had to buy one. It has been completely reliable through about 600 rounds. It is easily the most accurate 9 mm I have ever shot. I think the price is up to around $300.00 nowadays.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:26 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPee View Post
Bud's is indeed out of these guns on the Canik brand, but still has scads of them under the TriStar label, which was what I was writing about. Scroll down farther on Bud's Pistol page to the TriStar logo and you'll find the guns I described and a lot more.

I should have noted in my original post that while Tristar imports the Canik55 guns under their Tristar logo, Canik55 also imports some of their guns on their own logo as well, and seems to want quite a bit more money for them than Tristar does.

No, I no longer reload and can't tell you if the Canik55 barrels are short chambered like the CZ's. You might go over to the Clone Club or Ammo-Reloading section at the original CZ forum and look into their reloading posts. If nothing is there, I'm sure somebody over there can answer it for you. It's at: The Original CZ Forum - Index

Best wishes,

JayPee

Thanks, Buddy! And I'll tell you straight up that I never looked for the Tri-Star brand at Bud's since Canik makes the pistols. Actually, the L-120 might be what I'm looking for. That I'll have to decide because the TP9sa will get carried first.

There is one way that I know of to get around the short chamber issue that I probably didn't mention, and it's with my favorite 9mm defense bullet for handloading, the 124 gr. Golden Saber. Remington loads it at 1.145", Western data shows the same OACL and I load the same. But, what Rem. calls the "driving band" is what we consider the shank with other JHPs. The way the Golden Saber is designed, the "driving band" is the only full diameter/caliber portion of the bullet at .355". Above the driving band the shank diameter is .347" last time I checked. The smaller diameter shank to ogive is why Rem's. factory load is 1.145". In other words, the bullet above the "driving band" should not engage the rifling of the barrel.

In my past experience the longest I could load the Rem. 124 gr. JHP (not Golden Saber) was at 1.122" or 28.5mm. The length to touch the lands/rifling of the barrel was 1.127" in my P-01, so shortening by .005" to 1.122" left .005" for freebore. So long as I can get the Golden Sabers in bulk (not the new bonded version), I'm not adverse to making range and practice loads short enough to work in the chamber with .005 - .010" of Free bore.

Now I'm excited!
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Judge for yourself if my take is better or worse, but, here it is: "I hate Anti-Christ behavior in a man; I won't tolerate it!"

Not even from the actor who played Captain Call, Al Gore's roommate at Harvard. That goes double for our P-brain REZIDENT!

Last edited by K-Texas; 11-30-2015 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Stephens View Post
Hey Folks,

Not to get too off topic, but Canik makes their polymer frame TPS-9 into an incredible shooting deal! I've shot one and they are fantastic as reported by fellow member Vant here:

https://www.handgunsandammunition.com...nik-tp9sa.html

I wouldn't hesitate to look at the series that JayPee started this thread about. CZ's are no longer the "value" pistol that they once were and their price points have skyrocketed over the past several years.

Chris

Chris, don't know if you read my first post but I've been shooting a TP9sa for about a month. If you really need to spend more for a pistol, it will be for the brand logo only and I've been doing this for about 40 years now. In the handloading section I mentioned that I test powders for Western Powder Co., and I write articles for their blog: Western Powders, Inc. and I'm convinced that the TP9sa's barrel is so good that it accounts for my higher than typical velocities which allows me to use less powder and lower pressure.

The S-120 & L-120 have cold-hammer-forged barrels as well, and with conventional rifling vs. the polygonal rifling used by Glock and HK. SIG also makes cold-hammer-forged barrels with conventional rifling. Nuff said if you do or have ever owned one. Mine is a 1998 P-226 made in Germany and it has few peers. But, CZ's are among the most accurate pistols I've ever fired. The most accurate in .40 S&W with a 75B. Whatever you do regarding handloading for a pistol with a polygonal bore to prevent lead build-up is fine with me, but cast lead bullets will never seal in a polygonal bore as well as they do in a conventional lands & groove barrel which I referred to as conventional rifling. Poly-Coated bullets are great and solve most of the problems associated with shooting lead bullets from a polygonal bore, but they'll do even better with land & groove rifling. I have a good example if anyone is interested enough to ask in the handloading section.

Maybe this explains why Century didn't get back to me with Tri-Star still importing the L & S-120. Think I'm gonna have to have one! If polymer pistols are your thing, there are 2 TP9s now. The TP9sa (SAO) and the TP9v2 (version 2) which goes into double-action mode when you decock. Both outstanding values.

At the Canik plant in Turkey that's ISO 9001 certified, they occasionally pull pistols from the line and test them with 50,000 rounds without any parts changes. Hopefully, that speaks for itself.
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Captain Call had the best line in Lonesome Dove, IMO, when he said, "I hate rude behavior in a man; I won't tolerate it!"

Judge for yourself if my take is better or worse, but, here it is: "I hate Anti-Christ behavior in a man; I won't tolerate it!"

Not even from the actor who played Captain Call, Al Gore's roommate at Harvard. That goes double for our P-brain REZIDENT!

Last edited by K-Texas; 11-30-2015 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:34 AM   #15
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On my L-120, I purchased a slightly modified CZ85 Combat trigger from Cajun Gun Works in order to obtain a bit shorter reach for my arthritic hand. I installed it with a new Canik floating trigger pin and new OEM trigger return spring (not needed but I was in there, so what the heck.) While I was at it, I polished the bearing surfaces of the trigger bar with 600 and 2000 WD sandpaper. This smoothed up the double action pull very nicely. It wasn't especially rough to start with, just "service pistol" rough. I also installed a spare pair of CZ 75 grips on it, which needed to have the screw holes hogged out just a tiny hair in order to fit well. The floating trigger pin comes with a slave pin for the troublesome trigger return spring and it works like a champ - took all the tedium out of replacing the trigger. If you need a tutorial on tearing down the Canik/Tristar pistols, go here: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!

Don't make the mistake of thinking these guns disassemble just like the CZ's, because Canik uses a different method to secure the hammer pin and the safety. So follow the tutorial or you can lose some tiny parts bigtime. Also, make sure you remove the magazine brake by removing the pin at the top, and not just by pulling it out of the groove at the bottom - Canik uses a projection on the bottom of the spring that goes into a slot in the mainspring plunger, and if you try to pry it out like a CZ pistol, you'll mangle the bottom of the brake. Other than these things, it's a very straightforward design to disassemble. Hope all this blabber helps.

JayPee
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Last edited by JayPee; 12-01-2015 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:21 AM   #16
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BTW the Canik/Tristar models we'ere discussing differ from the CZ design by having a safety that can be set (in the "safe" position)*** while the hammer is down for a DA first shot. I find this really useful when holstering the gun at home......holstering being one of the most dangerous times in handling a pistol IMHO. I then click mine off for a DA first shot once it is properly seated in the holster.

Also, At Bud's, the steel framed version, the S-120 is only $330 with the "make offer" flag up, so if you want a steel gun, that's one heckuva price.

Forgot to say this above.

***Added later for clarification. JP
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Last edited by JayPee; 12-01-2015 at 12:27 PM.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:59 AM   #17
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I'm sure glad that I found out that Bud's is selling these pistols via TriStar. One thing I did notice is that they have not updated the pic of the S-120 to reflect the changes made by Canik. Canik's pic of the S-120 shows the change to a new trigger guard with a vertical front like the L-120 has. Bud's pic still shows the rounded trigger guard. Not a deal breaker and an email to Bud's might resolve the issue. I've seen this happen before with them. They may be shipping the "updated" model and just haven't gotten around to changing the pic, or they may indeed still have and ship the older style with he rounded version trigger guard.

Really good info in this thread and the points about the Canik 120s being different as far as the trigger group are excellent. I would not let that deter me in any way. I have owned both a CZ 75B in .40 S&W and a P-01 in 9mm and honestly, 75B triggers aren't quite what they used to be as far as smoothness and pull weight.

Being able to apply the safety while the hammer down with the S or L-120 is also somewhat unique if I understand this correctly. I wonder if the slide can be retracted while the safety is in the "safe" position?
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Captain Call had the best line in Lonesome Dove, IMO, when he said, "I hate rude behavior in a man; I won't tolerate it!"

Judge for yourself if my take is better or worse, but, here it is: "I hate Anti-Christ behavior in a man; I won't tolerate it!"

Not even from the actor who played Captain Call, Al Gore's roommate at Harvard. That goes double for our P-brain REZIDENT!
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Old 12-01-2015, 12:23 PM   #18
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Yes, Bud's photos are of the older version. All of mine came with the newer vertical front on the trigger guard. Bud's is bad about this for sure and has been for years.

"..................Being able to apply the safety while the hammer down with the S or L-120 is also somewhat unique if I understand this correctly. I wonder if the slide can be retracted while the safety is in the "safe" position?"

No the slide cannot be retracted on either my C100's or my L-120 when the safety is in the "safe" position. Nor can the safety be set in the "Safe" position when the slide is locked back.

For clarification, on the Canik55/Tristar models we're discussing, the safety can be set to the "safe" position with the hammer down, whereas their CZ counterparts cannot. On the CZ guns, the hammer must be cocked in order to place the sear-blocking safety in the "Safe" position. Hope this clarifies the issue.
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Last edited by JayPee; 12-01-2015 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 12-01-2015, 03:06 PM   #19
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Thanks, JayPee. Went to the Canik site after my last post and saw exactly what you explained, the safety engaged locks the slide.

My suspicion was that Bud's pics were out of date which is not uncommon for them. Good to know that they're shipping the updated versions with the partially serrated vertical front on the trigger guard. I didn't mention it because the levers are on the opposite side of the pistols in Bud's pics but the Canik pics also show that the control levers are angled. I think that's a nice touch, especially if it improves ergonomics.
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Captain Call had the best line in Lonesome Dove, IMO, when he said, "I hate rude behavior in a man; I won't tolerate it!"

Judge for yourself if my take is better or worse, but, here it is: "I hate Anti-Christ behavior in a man; I won't tolerate it!"

Not even from the actor who played Captain Call, Al Gore's roommate at Harvard. That goes double for our P-brain REZIDENT!
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Old 12-01-2015, 04:42 PM   #20
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Here is a very good shooting review of the S-120 from 2013. You'll notice the test gun has the rounded trigger guard instead of the newer contour.



I think one difference I should point out between the steel framed S-120 and the aluminum framed L-120 is that the L-120 frame is said to be very slightly thicker than the steel frame version. Now I didn't have an S-120 to verify this with, but I do have a CZ 85B, and the L-120 frame is definitely a skosh wider than the steel frame on the CZ 85B, so I assume the reports I've seen on this are probably true.

One other thing I want to discuss concerns some modifications owners are making to these guns that I am uncomfortable with. First, Cajun Gun Works is a new firm specializing in aftermarket parts for the CZ line of pistols, and they now offer some aftermarket parts for the Canik/Tristar line as well. CGW is known for making excellent equipment, so these remarks are in no way criticism of CGW.

Reading posts from gun forums about these guns, I find a real trend for owners to rush headlong into replacing the factory hammer spring, trigger return spring, and firing pin block stop springs with weaker ones almost as a right of passage. The purpose is to improve trigger pull. Frankly, it scares me to death to see common, everyday, gun owners with little gunsmithing expertise substituting lighter springs for factory springs in a defensive pistol, especially when it comes to the three I just mentioned.......all of which have a major effect on functioning and/or safety.

As an example of what I'm talking about, one of the more popular hammer springs these folks are using is an 11.5 pound spring instead of the 20 pound factory hammer spring. They gush about how it reduces both double action and single action trigger pulls by some fantastic amount. But now reports are surfacing of misfires resulting from this modification. When one cuts the hammer spring power almost in half, misfires are a pretty logical result to say the least.

Messing around with ignition in a defensive pistol is a risky thing to do since a serious reduction in reliability can result and that can only be bad.

Owners, especially new owners, should get some professional advice before swapping out springs on automatic pistols, even the really good ones like the ones we're discussing, because of the grevious repercussions that can result from ill-advised swaps. I'm mentioning this here because it appears to be a real trend among relatively inexperienced owners of the CZ and Canik/Tristar pistols. No offense intended. End of crotchety olphart rant.
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