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Old 03-28-2011, 10:52 AM   #1
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Remington 147 gr GS HP (non +P)

Maybe I missed it, but I haven't seen any penetration or expansion tests on the Remington 147 gr Golden Saber Hp (non +P). In my Walther PPS it shoots to point of aim and shoots the smallest group of any of 8 different types of ammo I've tried. Anybody know how it does on penetration in bare and clothed gelatin--or water or wetpack, for that matter?

Thanks for any info anyone can provide.

crash
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Old 03-28-2011, 12:32 PM   #2
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Hello. There is some information on it and the Speer 147-gr. Gold Dot in this thread:

https://www.handgunsandammunition.com...read.php?t=172

Here is an article that might be of use as well:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/B...0gr%20Ammo.htm

As best as I recall, the Golden Saber usually penetrates from 13 to 14" in 10% ballistic gelatin. I have found that when fired into water, the jacket sometimes separate from the actual lead bullet. This seems to happen more in water than other test media. I have not yet tried the newer bonded version which supposedly eliminates bullet/jacket separation.

In years gone by, I was part of a state-sanctioned game management program and used a handgun to kill quite a few Texas whitetail deer, the largest weighing about 140-lbs. This was legal and I only used my pistols on deer that were very close and under ideal conditions. Otherwise, I passed on the handgun shot. It goes w/o saying that I passed on many more than I shot. At the same time, this was an opportunity that few get actually use defense-oriented calibers/loads against living creatures. (On another site, I was told that I was not an "ethical hunter" because I used 9mm, .45 ACP, .44 Special, .45 Colt and .38 Super on these animals. It seems that I was in error for not using the newest S&W Magnum calibers. I will only reply that no deer shot by me using any of the above calibers required more than one shot except for two. One was felled with a .45 ACP handload and was finished off with a headshot from same. The other was with a 9mm handload and also received a coup de grace. The bulk of animals I shot were with either a .308 or '06...and a couple of those required a finishing shot from one of my handguns as well! All of the animals were eaten, most being donated to an organization that provided them to poor folks in a three county area.)

I said all of the above to preface saying that while I have not seen any humans shot with the Golden Saber, I have shot two Texas whitetails using a Browning Hi Power loaded with Remington factory 147-gr. Golden Saber. These deer were in the 100-lb range. Both were hit broadside, in the low-lung area immediately behind the front leg. Penetration was complete on both animals. Both dropped at the shot, kicked, got up and ran approximately 10 yards and piled up for the count. During the cleaning process, I did not notice any jacket left in either carcass.

Using a handloaded 147-gr. loaded to about 1200 ft/sec from a 5" .38 Super, I cleanly killed another whitetail with a similar shot. This bullet, even though driven beyond its "normal" velocity envelope by about 200 ft/sec gave complete penetration and provided a clean "one-shot stop"...for lack of a better term.

Some have responded to this information with something to the effect of: "Next time I'm attacked by water, soaked newsprint or deer, I'll use that load," ... or something similar. I really couldn't care less, but do suggest that non-homogeneous "media" complete with bones here and there along with whatever constitutes the "mechanism of collapse" might hold at least some validitiy in what we might expect to see against a human opponent.

The more I do hear of results from "the street" in which the 147-gr. 9mm loads were used, the more it truly appears that the Speer, Remington and Winchester Ranger loads in this weight are working fine.

In any event, I hope that this post offers at least some help.

Best.



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Old 03-28-2011, 05:06 PM   #3
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Mr. Camp,

Thanks so much for the quick reply and the good info. I may have failed to mention that I also tried Winchester Ranger 147 gr and Federal HST 147 gr in my Walther PPS. They were all standard pressure, and all of them hit closer to POA than any of the lighter loads, and made tighter groups than the lighter loads. After rechecking my results, I have to say that the Federal HST was just as accurate, if not more so, than the Remington GS. I shot two 6-rd groups with each load (7 yds, off-hand) and the results for the best 6-round group wilth each are as follows:

Remington: 1 1/2", all shots in X ring at POA

Federal: 4 rounds in 3/4" in X ring at POA, two called flyers in 1" in 9 ring.

Again, thanks for your help.

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Old 03-29-2011, 06:43 AM   #4
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Crash:

My PPS has categorically refused to feed 147s! You are a lucky man because I have always found the 147 grain bullets to be the most accurate of all of the 9mm projectiles.
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