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Old 03-18-2010, 12:28 PM   #1
 
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

Bob Reed--



I never cease to be amazed at how much I don't know and how much I thought I knew I didn't really know at all. In the 1911 magazine thread (stickied above) I heard about the distinction between the 1911 magazine lip configurations for the first time (as embarrassed as I am to admit that) :-[ . Also, the articles from one of the other forums you referenced in which an individual had studied and experimented with all three along with different followers and bullet designs kept me so engrossed in reading them that I almost didn't get any sleep the past couple of nights .



Yesterday I placed an order with Checkmate and Tripp Research for GI spec and Hybrid magazines respectively as well as a couple of the Tripp kits . I also have been surprised to find (I think) that most of the pricier 1911 magazines in my small inventory appear to be the wadcutter style (Wilson, Novak, Chip McCormick); only one of several of what I thought were military magazines has the bumps and fully tapered lips of the true military version; and about a half dozen others are who knows what kinds of rip-off's :(" title="" border="0"/> posing as military issue or genuine Colt magazines, and that latter category have either wadcutter or hybrid lip configurations -- i.e., not fully tapered and no bumps or dimples anywhere (and some have suspiciously rendered Colt brand markings on the bottoms of the base plates).



It would appear from all I've read that the GI spec fully tapered is the ideal pattern for hard ball. Is that true or am I misreading things :-/? It would also appear that the hybrid is useful for all the other bullet types including the semi-wadcutters ???. I am at a loss then to understand just what the wadcutter is for and why some of the most popular high dollar brand name mags are of that style :-/. Am I missing something about the value of the wadcutter that I need to be seeing? Finally, have I correctly diagnosed the lip profiles of the three brand name magazines identified above?



--Ray
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Old 03-19-2010, 10:42 AM   #2
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

Ray:



Obviously, I am not Bob but I have fooled with lots and lots of 1911 magazines over the years. Long ago and far away, you had your choice of GI or Colts mags. They were the original style with the tapered feed lips that controlled the GI ball ammo straight into the chamber.



Then came the rise of the wadcutter style mainly from other sources but they were square and parallel but only for about half the length of the feed lips. I remember several sources of them such as MecGar and others. I think the original McCormick Shooting Stars and Wilson/Rogers mags were of that style as well. This style released the round to earlier as they literally let go of the round about half way into the chamber. You sort of had to do that with the short 185/200 grain LSWC bullets of the era. I remember doing all sorts of stuff with 10% extra power springs and all sorts of followers. Candidly, I think you would have to look hard to find the true Wadcutter types any more. I remember getting them from Champions Choice and other mail order places.



To my memory, the hybrid style came to the fore with the Wilson 47Ds but don't hold me to that exactly. In examining my stock pretty much all of them (Wilson 7s, Ed Brown 7s, Baer 7s and Wolff 7s) are hybrid style. I have not had much issue with them but I have replaced the Wilson followers & springs with Tripp kits. I would add another dozen McCormick Power Mags modified with Tripp kits but that is for another day.



I have a dozen CheckMate GI style (tapered lips) I use in IDPA where I tend to shoot only ball ammo. They are cheap and work really well provided you don't put your feets on them. I learned that all magazines die and not to fall in love with them. They work or they are repaired and used for range mags. When they quit on the range, they get the chop.



A good magazine is absolutely required for proper successful operation of a good 1911 style pistol. As is good ammo and proper maintenance. I see junk mags marked with NSN and rampant ponies being sold at the shows and the catalogs these days. One gets what one pays for.



The M1911 is one of the few semis that one can violate the OEM rule with and actually improve the guns functioning. The BHP-35 can take good mags too but appears to be less fussy than old slabsides. I like MecGars and original Browning/FNs. The milsurp I used to get are getting hard to find.
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Old 03-21-2010, 01:31 PM   #3
 
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

Herr Oberst--

Thanks for clarifying some things for me. The Wilson magazines I have are ancient and have been ridden pretty hard; I suspect that they are the wadcutter design, although now I doubt that the McCormicks and Novaks are. I actually have never had a feeding problem with those Wilsons, and I've been interested to note that folks both swear by one brand or another while other folks swear at those same brands for problems they've had with them. I guess there's no perfect device or one that is beyond manufacturing defects or damage with use.

--Ray
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Old 03-25-2010, 07:40 PM   #4
 
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

Over the past couple of days I have received my orders of both hybrid (Tripp Research) and GI spec (Checkmate & Springfield) magazines -- 3 by each manufacturer. The quality of all of them is really impressive, and it is not difficult to identify the differences between the lip configurations of each type. I'm almost certain my older Wilsons are the wadcutter type now that I have bona fides of each of the other types to compare. I kind of suspect that Checkmate may have made the Springfields because they look and feel exactly alike. I intended to install the Tripp kits in my McCormick mags until taking them apart I realized how well put together those magazines really are -- real quality! I just won't use them in my scandium Smith because of the flat follower. I never cease to be amazed and fascinated by the 1911 and all that goes with it.

--Ray
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Old 03-26-2010, 08:08 PM   #5
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

What gets me is one pistol will work fine with brand X, the next pistol will choke on them. OVERALL, with a fairly large cross section of 1911's, I've found Wilson seven round mags to work better for me. I have yet to try Tripp mags or followers, until the Wilsons I have become non functional I am too cheap to experiment. Over the last 25 years I've accumulated near 50 of the Wilsons, other than a rebuild from time to time, they've been really good for me.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:04 PM   #6
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

Gents,



Good thread. Like most I've tried many 1911 magazines and had excellent with the true GI magazines when using ball ammo.



Other magazines seem to be problematic...even with ball ammo.



So, I tend to mate magazines to a specific weapon and load

type. Once that was done my stoppage rate went way down.



Recently I ordered Checkmate GI mags, and like you, was impressed with their quality.



Now I have to order more mags to go with my new Delta Elite 10mm. Recommendations? Suspect that I'll just order 10mm mags from Checkmate, smile, and be happy...unless advised otherwise.



Wes
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:30 AM   #7
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

well while I'm late to the party...



Metalforms round tops followers work well in my commander / custom.



Checkmates do also.



but I recently bought some Tripps to try and I really like them.

them seem smoother feeding, not as much ka - chunk.

how's that for scientific ?

so I am going to order a few more, along with upgrade kits springs and followers for some other tubes I have.

it's got a composite follower, metal and synthetic. metal contacts the slide stop so it doesn't get chewed up like a Wilson follower.



one thing about the Tripps though :

the witness holes are offset, so capturing the spring on a welded base plate is more difficult when cleaning.



the Wilson's everyone swears by work, but in classes when we drop them my ole lady's Wilson's got more stuff in them from the slots...I just like conventional witness holes.

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Old 03-29-2010, 06:18 PM   #8
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

Hello Ray, and sorry for the late reply, but I didn't see the thread untill today.



It sounds like you've dove some serious reading and have it figured out.
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Old 03-30-2010, 05:39 AM   #9
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

While I have used the Tripp kits I have yet to experience a Cobra mag first hand. But, I have had sort of mixed reports on them from people I know in the local competition circuit. Again, I may have them on my list but I can report the spring and follower conversion kits to be first rate.



Hilton Yam of 10-8 Performance has a very high opinion of the Tripp upgrade to the CMC mag bodies. I have always liked the CMC powermags but sooner or later and without notice, nearly every 8 round mag I have ever had developed some issues. The Tripp kits fix these issues at the cost of the 8th round. Sometimes I just don't think that 8th round was meant to be.



As I primarily shoot ball ammo in my 1911s, I have really been taken with the CheckMates. They are high quality and cheap. That counts with me in IDPA competition because they do take a beating. I have generally bought the blued GI versions by the dozen. My only complaint is that they will rust up pretty good unless you really stay on your cleaning.



I only wish I had my buddy to do the old teflon coating trick. Long ago and far away that was the very height of technology.
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Old 03-30-2010, 07:00 AM   #10
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Wadcutter, Hybrid, or GI Spec (full tapered)?

I'm not much of a fan of 8 rounders...



played around with some of Chip's Shooting Star conversions on my Sig P 220 in the original zipper back mags in the early eighties.

they worked...

but that Devel follower was a pain loading the first round.



my 1911 is Bobtailed and I like a flush fit welded base plate for cocealment, but they are a pain in the butt to clean.

fiddle around trying to get 8 rounds into that doesn't seem to work 100%, but some guys are finding the Checkmates reliable.



we shall see.



edited to add:



of course there are reliable eight rounders, you just need the extended tube, and it sticks out. they are much easier to maintain with a removable base plate.
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