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Old 01-14-2011, 07:52 PM   #1
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver

I put this here instead of the General Firearms or Range category because I thought more revolver guys would see it here.



From the IDPA website, a rumor verified:



IDPA recognizes the difficulty of finding off the shelf factory loaded .38 special ammunition that meets the the existing 125,000 power floor for SSR. Because of this difficulty, IDPA has decided to lower the power floor required for SSR to 105,000. The 105,000 power floor will allow more off the shelf brands of ammunition to meet the requirement for the SSR division. This change in power floor should allow IDPA members more opportunity to participate in the SSR division without having to invest in reloading equipment.



This change in power floor will become effective on January 17th, 2011.



Robert Ray

IDPA HQ




I have mixed feelings on this.



I don't think lower power factors do anything but make a game more unrealistic. I would guess that most people who carry a revolver carry it loaded with ammo that makes the 125 power factor.



On the other hand, I know a lot of factory 38 Spl ammo won't make the 125 power factor. I'd almost bet very little of the "cheap" practice-type 38 Spl ammo will hit 125PF.

A new IDPA shooter on a budget who wants to use the S&W 66 or M10 he has had for years or bought for a good price probably won't be a reloader. He'll be stuck with factory ammo, and often that choice will be the cheapest the store had on hand.



Then again, no clubs I've shot at got too carried away worrying about power factors. If you were shooting really light stuff someone might say something, otherwise I don't think anyone much cared unless it was a state match.



As for me, I might have to do what temptation has been nibbling at me to do: I might shoot the Webley .38 S&W at least one match.

I can make 125PF with my cast 185 grain bullets, but that's about as far as I want to go. I'd rather have to make just 105.
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Old 01-15-2011, 06:46 AM   #2
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver

B-i-I:



Funny you should mention this on the morning I am prepping for the inaugural 2011 IDPA Match. This one is a Back Up Gun (BUG) match and I plan to shoot my Colts Cobra in it. Last year I shot Stock Service Revolver all year with some success. However, finding 38 SPL standard pressure bulk ammo was a bit of a trial. First, it was hard come by at all. Then, the 158 grain loading was even rarer. And finally, my chrono show most of it to be less than legal for IDPA.



I solved the issue by minting my own match loads from new StarLine brass with plated Berry's 158 grain flat points. I pushed the loads a bit and settled on one that would make the PF with some to spare. This resulted in a spit forcing cone in my M13 which in all fairness was ancient.



I am sorry to see them lower the standard myself. I can't afford to shoot +P factory stuff but some of the available bulk rounds are real powder puff.



Oh well, I am off to the match. The rest of the year will be M1911, a proper big bore auto.
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Old 01-15-2011, 10:20 AM   #3
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver

I thought you'd be interested in seeing that. I knew you had probably ran into the problem, but didn't know (or remember) how much trouble, or the cracked forcing cone.



I hate it was done, but I guess I can see why. If people can't buy any factory loaded practice/range ammo that makes the PF, they won't be there. To those who deride matches, I always say shooting them beats not shooting. The paraphrase myself: Shooting with 105 PF ammo beats not shooting.



I wonder if it had to be so low. I haven't checked a lot of the WWB-type ammo to see what it chronos, so I don't know, but would a PF of 115 done it?

At 105PF, even though the bore size is under the limit, my mild to moderate .32-20 loads make it (118 cast at just under 900 fps).



Listen to me whine. I think I've only shot one match with a revolver, yet I'm complaining like it changes my entire life.

I just think about how some people already won't go to any type of match because they think it's too "gamey", and this isn't going to help. Then again, they probably weren't going to go no matter what. That, and getting more coming who couldn't find factory ammo to use before is an OK tradeoff.
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:26 PM   #4
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver

B-i-I:



Topic One today at the BUG Match was the PF issue. I shot standard 158 grain LRN (A-E, I think) thru the Colts Cobra and was happy as a clam. Don't know the scores yet but I will by tomorrow.



One of the young gamesmen had a -5 for a -0 hit when his 38 SPL failed to achieve penetration thru the cardboard target. He did however use a 357 Magnum in the same cylinder full to knock down the steel popper to activate the up/down target.



It appears to be legal in BUG and with a liberal Match Director. I would have given him FTDR, a lifetime ban and had him arrested for felony ugly in a public place. Then again, I have never been known to hold a strong opinion.



Next week is my Club match and I will revert to the Approved Solution of M1911 in 45 ACP. Uncle Jeff would be pleased.
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:58 PM   #5
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver

The same equipment must be used throughout the match, including ammo. I'm not sure what page it's on, but I'm pretty sure it's in the book somewhere.



But yes, different matches are ran looser than others. I shot one in another state over Christmas break, and they were allowing thigh holsters and cowboy rigs, plus using cover varied with the stage.
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:08 AM   #6
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver

Club matches are very much a reflection of the personality of the match director. Locally we recently lost an IDPA match when the MD decided to do "steel". It had been semihemidemi for about a year under his tenure.



Still, a guy should be able to go to the store, buy a box of ammo and compete. Like the 10 round mag thing, the object is to have a level playing field for average people and not the gunning elite. They already have a venue for that.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:02 AM   #7
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver

I'm fine with letting the new guy with a not-very-concealable holster use it for a while, and the lady with a Beretta .380 she carries daily, and things like that. I don't like when they let people do things for obvious gain, like swap ammo for different stages according what will let them score better.



You are sure right about matches taking on the personality of the director. One of them around here shoots a revolver, so his matches are always much more revolver-friendly than others. When I took the New Service out last year, that's where I took it.



I think IDPA by it's nature changes according to who is running things more than IPSC. The SO has a big effect on each squad. Most are more concerned with legal mag changes and shooting order type of things, but I'm anal about things like using cover. I'll keep quiet about leaving an empty mag behind if the slide wasn't locked back, but leave your arm exposed from cover while changing those mags and I'm saying something.



I was pretty mixed on the PF drop, but I'm now hearing more and more people say that WWB 130 grain FMJ .38 Spl didn't make the cut (at least through 4" barrels), and it's probably the most commonly available 38 Spl ammo around here. You're right- If a guy can't go in the gun shop or Wal Mart and buy .38 Spl ammo that will meet the requirements, it isn't right. I'd rather see Winchester change the ammo, but that's not going to happen so that leaves what IDPA did.



Maybe it will get more revolver shooters out, whether new people or not.

As it is, I usually only see two or three revolver users out of 30-35 shooters.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:21 AM   #8
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver



Quote:
Originally Posted by [color=#000080
oberstlt[/color]]





One of the young gamesmen had a -5 for a -0 hit when his 38 SPL failed to achieve penetration thru the cardboard target. He did however use a 357 Magnum in the same cylinder full to knock down the steel popper to activate the up/down target.








Is this part of your tale the gospel or are you stretchin' the blanket a little for entertainment purposes? I would like to think the latter, but I recall a guy whose .38 special reloads were hitting the floor of the indoor range enroute to the plate rack at 25 yards. Of course it wasn't long before one of the 'poofers' didn't make it out of the barrel.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:34 AM   #9
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver

It wouldn't surprise me. Placing a spot or two higher in these local matches is pretty valuable, you know. At least to some.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:31 PM   #10
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IDPA Drops Power Factor in Stock Svc Revolver



[quote=Brian D.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by "[color=#000080
oberstlt[/color]":lw7c29hx]





One of the young gamesmen had a -5 for a -0 hit when his 38 SPL failed to achieve penetration thru the cardboard target. He did however use a 357 Magnum in the same cylinder full to knock down the steel popper to activate the up/down target.








Is this part of your tale the gospel or are you stretchin' the blanket a little for entertainment purposes? I would like to think the latter, but I recall a guy whose .38 special reloads were hitting the floor of the indoor range enroute to the plate rack at 25 yards. Of course it wasn't long before one of the 'poofers' didn't make it out of the barrel. [/quote:lw7c29hx]



Before offering choice of pistols or sabers, I can state that I did see the poofers after a single magnum. The youngster reported to me that on another stage they would not credit him with a -0 hit that did not penetrate the cardboard. But one should never let truth stand in the way of a good tale.
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