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Trigger ???

6K views 23 replies 13 participants last post by  nuclear 
#1 ·
It all started innocently enough. I was surfing GB for a 1911 frame and stumbled on a Chas Daly HP frame and slide. That was about 2 years ago. Now I have two complete FEGs, still have the unfinished frame and slide and have recently purchased a MkIII. Oh, where does the madness end?


One of the FEGs came to me with a C&S trigger installed and I am very happy with how it feels and shoots. I recently picked up a used MkIII and would like to upgrade the trigger to either a C&S or a Garthwaite. For those who have experienced both, do you have a preference? And or, Can you explain your perceived impressions of the differences?

Thanks
 
#2 ·
1956,

While I have no experience with the garthwaite triggers I have considerable "trigger time"(pun intented) with the C & S offering.

The standard Hi-Power trigger has sharply defined edges whereas the C & S is more rounded and provides a wider trigger surface. The effect is more comfortable shooting and a trigger that is more managable, IMHO.

The newer MKIII's have a wider rounded trigger similar to the C & S unit. You might want to consider that, too.

Sounds like you've found the wonder of Hi-Powers...in a big way!

Wes
 
#3 ·
It all started innocently enough. I was surfing GB for a 1911 frame and stumbled on a Chas Daly HP frame and slide. That was about 2 years ago. Now I have two complete FEGs, still have the unfinished frame and slide and have recently purchased a MkIII. Oh, where does the madness end?

I think that it only ends when you run out of all money, or they throw dirt onto your face!! Enjoy, life is short.
 
#6 ·
I have both the C&S and the Garthwaite. They are both very good and I don't believe that I have a real preference.

My gunsmith tells me that the Garthwaite is easier to install, and the C&S can have reset issues at times, which is maybe what Nuclear is referring to.

One factor - or maybe not - is that the C&S trigger can be had in hard chrome, whereas the Garthwaite does not.

Please keep us posted. It sounds to me that you have a really fun project planned.
 
#7 ·
The C&S trigger often has reset issues because it must be fitted to the gun. It is not, at least in my experience, a "drop in" part. Generally the trigger lever must be filed down (shortened). If the trigger lever projects above the right frame rail when the trigger is fully forward, it will prevent the trigger from resetting and must be shortened.
 
#8 ·
I installed the Garthwaite trigger on my HP and consider it money well spent. I have large hands and long fingers, so I found the curvature on the stock trigger to be too pronounced for good trigger control. The flatter Garthwaite trigger solved that problem. It does require some minor fitting of the trigger stop for proper function.
 
#9 ·
The issues I had with the C&S were not exactly functional, that is to say, the gun always went bang. But the trigger was very loose side to side in the frame, and if you kept pressing on the trigger after the hammer dropped, there was a loud "click" and the trigger moved an additional amount. Needless to say, this disturbed me, so I had the original trigger put back in before I moved away from my trusted gunsmith. Maybe I will try to get a Garthwaite now that I'm settled in here in AZ.
 
#11 ·
I have the Garthwaite trigger on my BHP Mark III. It lightened my trigger pull by 1.3 pounds, due to the lower position that it allows me to hold my finger, creating more leverage.

You'll definitely need to file the stop on the trigger down to get your gun to fire, but that is quite easy. I consider that a good feature of the trigger design, so that you end up with a trigger that is perfectly adjusted to your gun and trigger pull preferences. Just be sure to file it in very small increments, testing it in the gun after each attempt, until you get it just right.
 
#15 ·
I shoot a BHP in IDPA and while it is illegal to tamper with any safety device, IDPA HQ has never ruled on a "magazine disconnect" as a safety. Additionally, there appear to be some BHPs that did not have magazine disconnects installed. Thus far I have not had any issues at major matches.
 
#17 ·
Actually they did, about 3 years ago and it's posted on IDPAYuko forum, you'll have to seach for it.

The only BHP made without the mag disconnect was the WW2 units after Germany took over the FN factory in Belgium, and they have the Waffenampt stamp on them. Those stamped BHP's are legal in IDPA.
 
#16 ·
I usually shoot a BHP at IDPA matches and my observation is that most SOs don't really know what the official view is on mag disconnects anyway. Some have their own idea though.
And I can see why.
IDPA did come out a few years ago and say a mag disconnect on a Browning was a "safety" because it is called that in Browning's manual. Then some people questioned that after producing versions of manuals that do not call it a safety, along with proof that not all HiPowers were made with mag disconnects. I pointed out plenty of gun manuals say not to keep a loaded chamber either, and asked if we were going to start every stage with empty chambers in those guns. The last I knew, IDPA kinda backed off from "The BHP Question" and it was no more decided than it had been. I get the impression people are afraid to push it for further clarification for fear they will take the easy way and say it has to be there, period.

I have mostly shot at the same three places since joining IDPA, and have SOd at two of those, so know most of the SOs and match directors. Over those years, they have either seen or heard of my pitch on this. I always bring a spare gun, and the spare has a mag disconnect while the one I usually carry and shoot does not. I have offered to show them the difference inside, to show that the one does not even have a provision for it. A few will know that the C&S trigger has no disconnect provision, but they also know the C&S is a wide trigger, but the triggers on the two examples I have are the same width. That has been enough to satisfy them so far.

Or you can just stick a finger or pen up the magwell every time you drop the hammer to show clear. I had got in the habit of doing that out of necessity when I shot my old one, so did it for a long time later no matter which BHP I was using. More often than not, the gun didn't have a disconnect, but nobody asked.
 
#18 ·
I have fairly small hands and the 'finger up the magwell' works for me on post-1950 guns. Earlier ones have a shorter 'shoe' on the disconnect pad that I can't reach.

What also works fine is to use an old stripped magazine tube.


Regards,

Pat
 
#21 ·
Some how I recall that the guns made for IPSC did not have the magazine disconnect. And, I am not sure if the SFS had them or not.

I do not know the IDPAYuko but I know that the IDPA board was wink and nod about it. I have shot mine locally in a few major matches and none of the SOs or MDs said a word about it. I did ask one and he said it was ok.

Thus we go round and round. I know that the S&W M&Ps are something of an issue as some of them come with a magazine safety that can easily be removed. Externally, they look just like the other ones. That issue has also been skirted.
 
#23 ·
Bob:

Do you know where I can find out about the non mag disconnect FN BHP's?
It was some inside info that I received.

Oberstlt - all the SFS guns that I've seen had the disconnect.
 
#24 ·
Deleting the mag disconnect has been an option for military/police orders from FN. I believe some Israeli guns were produced that way, but I can't find the reference right now.

I always thought the IDPA ruling on keeping the BHP mag disconnect was foolish. You either have to stick the middle finger of your off hand up the mag well while keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction and then pulling the trigger to drop the hammer, or keep an empty magazine quarantined from your other magazines to insert to pull the trigger, dropping the hammer to prove the gun was safe. But removing the mag disconnect merely makes the manual of arms for "safing" the BHP the same as a 1911, whose procedure bothers no one.
 
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