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Old 02-05-2010, 07:28 PM   #21
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.

Very well done sir. You are to be complimented for the fine work you have done on this article.
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Old 02-07-2010, 10:38 AM   #22
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.

I wanted to take a minute and express my sincere appreciation, first, for all the help you gents here at H&A provided during the workup of the FEG article, and secondly for your patience.



I was never in this thing alone, as those who got all of my pesky PM's asking questions about their FEG pistols can attest. Lots of you provided editorial help right from the first draft, to XHVI giving direction to the article and editorial expertise along the way as well, to Mr. Camp taking time to review the final draft for me.



I suppose I'll forever be known as a FEG nut, but I'm not really. I simply believe FEG made a better gun than they're given credit for and their product deserved a more understandable presentation than it had been given up to this time. So I decided it was something I needed to do. I'm really sorry the FEG concern couldn't make it on the modern gun scene and I will always believe they deserved better, IMHO.



So once again, thank you for your kindness from start to finish. I am flattered that the forum directors have seen fit to make the blog link a sticky in the Hi Power Forum. Pardon the poor grammar, but it don't git no better'n that in my book.



Jerry
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Old 02-07-2010, 05:30 PM   #23
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.

JP, it was my pleasure helping you with your FEG article. I wish more of the authors I had to deal with back when I worked as an editor wrote as well as you do.



Don't let your magnum opus be the only contribution to our new FEG Blog. I've already posted a follow-up article dealing with the FEG P9R.
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:04 PM   #24
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.

This is an impressive amount of info and I appreciate all the efforts in compiling it.



Not too long ago I came across some info posted elsewhere that came from the president of KBI, apparently just prior to KBI going out of business. It is a brief history of the naming of the KBI products. This may be old news but since I've seen no reference to it here I thought I would post the info as it is quite interesting.



" KBI (my company) and Kassnar Imports (my father's old company) imported umpteen thousands of FEG pistols and their AKM rifles from the mid-80's until today. They had different issues at different times, but the function was always very good even if the finishing at times left something to be desired. The prices were always fantastic.



For you to truly understand my relationship to FEG pistols and rifles over the years, I will pass on a little known fact about some of the model names that came here to the US:



The PJK-9HP was named for my wife, Pamela Jane.

The MBK-9HP and MBK-9HPC were named for me.

The PMK-380 was named for my father, Paul Martin

The GKK-45, GKK-92 and GKK-92C were all named for my daughter.

The SMC-380, SMC-918 and SMC-22 were named for my sales manager at the time (who got jealous that I was naming all the guns after my family).

Then my sister complained that we had not named anything after her and I replied that there already was one named for her, the AK. Her name is Alexis!



And of course FEG was intimately involved with the Charles Daly HP project, producing all of the components that were ultimately finished in the US.



FEG also sold some of these same models at various times to the old Interarms company and Century. (FEG could never be trusted to honor any exclusives for very long!) That is why you see some of the same guns with different model designations over the years. However, all of the above model names belonged to Kassnar or KBI so they could only have come from these two companies.



Sincerely,

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Michael Kassnar, President, K.B.I., Inc.



Manufacturers, Importers and Distributors of Charles Daly, CD Defense, Jericho and other fine firearms."



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Old 12-19-2010, 01:51 PM   #25
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.

Jaypee, that was quite a comprehensive article. My head is still throbing!. This is my first visit to this forum. A bother of a friend has 2 Browning Hi-Power pistols for sale and I wanted to learn about them before making a deal. What can you or anyone else tell me about Browning. #245PN61309 and Browning #245RN14664 ?

Thanks for any info or comments

Tom in 60193



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Old 12-19-2010, 03:19 PM   #26
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tbdomenz
Jaypee, that was quite a comprehensive article. My head is still throbing!. This is my first visit to this forum. A bother of a friend has 2 Browning Hi-Power pistols for sale and I wanted to learn about them before making a deal. What can you or anyone else tell me about Browning. #245PN61309 and Browning #245RN14664 ?

Thanks for any info or comments

Tom in 60193


Hello,



Here's the link to Browning's Date Codes http://www.browning.com/customerserv...tail.asp?id=35



If you have any other questions regarding the Browning High Powers you're looking at feel free to start a whole new thread on them.
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I'd rather beat a bad guy to death with my Browning High Power, than shoot him dead with a plastic pistol.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:37 PM   #27
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.

Hi all,



I'm new to the H & A Forum. I, too, would like to add my praise for and thanks to JayPee for his fine FEG P9R article. Very helpful and worthwhile article. I notice, JayPee, in the article the comparison of the FEG P9R to the S&W Mod. 59. There seems to be widespread concensus on this point (perhaps taking their cue from the article by JayPee) and I see the resemblance. However, in the June 1993 edition of American Rifleman the P9R was reviewed and the reviewer noted the gun combines features of the Hi-Power and the S&W Model "39". Both the S&W Model 39 and 59 were discontinued in 1981 (the 39 began production in 1954 and the 59 in 1971). Per the review article, the P9R borrows the slide and magazine design from the HP and the rest from the Mod. 39. Hence, as JayPee concludes, the P9R really should not be referred to as an HP clone. Per the article the FEG FP9 is a copy of the Browning HP. Per the article by JayPee the likeness to the Model 59 appears, in part, to derive from the internal construction of the slide mechanism which the accompanying photos make clear. I am not familiar with the Model 39. So I do not know how the Model 59 compares with it nor how the P9R differs from the Model 59 and compares to the Model 39, other than by the AR review article.

The AR article concludes: "...the P9R seemed to us a well-made pistol that is fully up to contemporary [i.e. 1993] commercial standards of finish." I have two NIB P9Rs I purchased in Sept. 1994 and I can attest to the high-quality polished exterior finish and the very well-milled internal finish of both guns. The article goes on to say, "The Hi-Power and Model 39 designs lack some modern refinements, but they are well-proven. A gun that combines the best of both at a reasonable price [June 1993 price: $300] demands consideration from any 9mm fan." I am happy to email a copy of the AR review article to any interested reader.



Thanks for all of the helpful give-and-take on this forum.



Ammoup
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:01 PM   #28
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.

Thank you for your most kind comments, Ammoup. For clarification, the Model 39 Smith and Wesson was a single stack double action semiautomatic pistol designed to compete in the Army trials of 1951, which sought a replacement for the Colt M1911 service pistol. The Model 59 was essentially a higher capacity double stack version of the Model 39. Both were chambered for the 9mm cartridge.



The double action FEG pistols are indeed well made, attractive pistols that were imported by a number of companies and I have been sorely tempted by them in the past. Being in my 60's, I still have a song in my heart for a nicely blued auto pistol with graceful lines and contrasting wood grips. Best wishes.



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Old 02-02-2011, 10:27 PM   #29
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.

Thanks for the S&W clarifications, JayPee. Now, if I might draw upon your sophisticated knowledge and erudition in matters concerning FEGs and HPs: I have been sitting on 2 NIB P9Rs which I purchased in 1994. They have sat in my closet, in their original factory lubricant coating (whatever that stuff is they slathered all over them) in their original packing containers for nearly 17 years. So, I am at a point of decision: do I go ahead and begin using them? (Don't ask me why I've held onto them this long.) Or do I try to sell them and purchase an HP. I have hever owned an HP. But I have held them and kinda-sorta drooled over them. And I know their well-deserved rep. But in your experience, not counting the obvious finish and structural differences (and conceding that shooter satisfaction is very subjective), is the experience of owning and shooting an HP a sufficiently higher level of shooting experience that it might well be worth trying to consolidate the two FEGs into one HP? Or is the experience of shooting the FEG really not that much less satisfying than the HP to warrant such action? In short, are the differences between the two shooting experiences largely a matter of aesthetics? Or is there a significant difference in the quality of the shooting itself, apart from the aesthetic differences in the two weapons? At least significant enough to conclude it is worth stepping up to the HP? Again, this is highly subjective and raises many other questions and considerations. But yours is an opinion that is highly esteemed on these boards and therefore to me is worth soliciting. I do have a practical concern, as well, pertaining to the lack of available parts as the FEGs wear through usage. Thanks, JayPee
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Old 02-03-2011, 11:55 AM   #30
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An Excellent Review On All The FEG HPs.

Hello again, Ammoup. Once again you give me more credit than I can live up to. Thank you.



Your question concerning whether to begin using the FEG P9R's or attempting to sell them to finance a Browning Hi Power pistol is, as you say, quite subjective and a matter of personal preference. But I'm pretty good at sticking my neck out and putting my foot in my mouth, so I'll give it a whirl.



First, as far as the quality of shooting experience between the two guns is concerned, they are quite a bit different in heft and feel in your hand, and your pleasure in shooting each gun will depend on how intimately each fits your particular hand...i.e. "how good" it feels in your hand, and how well it comes up to eye level from the draw with the sights aligned, and with the least possible amount of shifting in order to reach the eye. If you intend to use either pistol for defensive purposes, the latter point should always be the determining factor. In a defensive situation you are better off with a discontinued firearm made by a defunct manufacturer that aims quick and true than you are with the glitziest prestige gun on the market that only places second.



I suspect that the P9R is heavier since it is visibly beefier than the Hi Power, and this may translate into slightly less recoil and muzzle flip, but you would have to shoot both guns with the same load in order to determine this for sure. Given the svelte construction of the Hi Power design, my bet would be that it would produce slightly more recoil than your P9R's, but not enough to cause serious criticism of either gun.



Let's say both guns feel equally good in your hand and "come up" for you equally well. The next question is whether you should begin to shoot the P9R's or to use them to finance a Browning or FN Hi Power. First, the P9R's are not easy to sell to established pistol shooters since it is well known that they have been out of production for some time and parts and magazines are not available for them. I have seen the same ones on a prominent auction site, NIB, fail to sell auction after auction after auction. And these particular guns are very nice ones. The used ones are invariably shown as "as is, no returns" because they've probably seen a lot of shooting and will soon be needing a new part or two, and none exist.



However, the sellers, in my opinion, are asking too much money for them. Most of them NIB start the bidding at between $360 and $375. Add shipping, FFL fees, and background check fees, and a buyer will have somewhere around $450 to $480 in a gun for which there are no spare parts or, worst of all, no magazines. This brings the guns entirely too close to the price of quite a number of existing designs that are well respected and still in production. So my observation has been that the P9R's are not selling well on the auction websites.



Now, for a more positive outlook. If I was in your shoes and had two brand new P9R's still in the box pristine new, AND I wanted to sell them, I would try to sell them locally to persons who basically will never shoot them enough to need a new part or more magazines. These folks would mostly be fellows who want a good home defense pistol with an extra magazine, who wouldn't shoot it a zillion rounds a year as an established pistol shooter might, and who are not concerned that the gun is no longer being made. The P9R, in my humble and sometimes skewed opinion, would be an excellent gun for this fellow. And, although the risk of a factory defect would still be there, these guns were well made and I think the probability of a factory defect is no higher than established brands still in production.



So that's how I would go about trying to sell them if they were mine. Since there are no shipping fees, FFL fees, or taxes involved in a private or "face-to-face" sale, (except in a few states), you could give the buyer a very good deal at $365 and still make the same profit you would make on an internet auction sale. (I would pay that amount for one NIB, personally.) Double that amount by selling them both and you are sneaking up on the price of an as-new used Browning or FN Hi Power. Now, let me say that the above figures are based on the local economy where I live and may differ in your neck of the woods.



As a matter of simple economics, I believe that the longer you hang on to the P9R's, in my opinion, the less you will be able to get for them and the harder they will be to sell. This is simply because they are getting farther and farther from the date FEG collapsed and your ability to find parts for them diminishes every day you own them. And, despite being well made guns, they are not what most people would consider "collectible." They are clearly shooters....good ones but shooters nonetheless



I own one Browning Hi Power, a 1979 Sport Model with adjustable sights that I found a year ago in unfired condition for a purchase price of $765, and a delivered price of $827. I treasure the gun every bit as much as I would treasure a brand new one, and have even written it into my will as a family heirloom to be passed on when I do.



I sincerely hope I haven't overstepped in my suggestions and I wish you the best in making your decision. Thank you again for your most gracious comments.



Jerry







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