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Old 12-07-2008, 01:20 PM   #1
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

Well, I have a new carry load for the 3" RAMI 9mm. :) I bought myself a box of Speer's "short barrel" 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot load and tried it out in the little CZ yesterday. (A woman friend with a Walther PPS got this load for her gun at my urging - worked well for her, and I have a good friend in the gun store who's been after me to buy a box for my own self for some time.)



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Old 12-07-2008, 07:45 PM   #2
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

Hello, Erich. It looks to me like the 124-gr. load does indeed have very promising potential from the RAMI.



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Old 12-07-2008, 11:07 PM   #3
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

Thanks - I certainly can see why folks are so impressed with Speer's "short barrel" offerings. :) As with anything, I suppose, it pays to see how any given ammo shoots out of your gun before making a decision. Since I got my first chronograph in '89 or so, I've been pretty thrilled with the extra insight these tools provide.
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:41 PM   #4
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

I do have a question (seriously):



Does anyone know what kind of conversion should be applied to convert the altitude of this test to the (presumably) closer to sea level tests conducted by the manufacturers?

Is it worth 10%; more;not much?



Just wondering.

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Old 12-11-2008, 05:32 PM   #5
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

Mike, external ballistics is really a very complicated science. There are many variables involved: altitude, air pressure, sectional density, humidity, temperature all play a part. There's no easy conversion that gets you a realistic scientific result. Frankly, since each gun shoots so differently (and I'm not just talking about each model gun, I'm talking about each individual gun), I'm not all that convinced that data like this is truly any good for anything other than saying, "Hmm. Perhaps that ammo would shoot similarly in my similar gun."



I do think that such data is interesting, though, so I enjoy recording it and posting it. Others seem to agree. :)



There are really good books out there on external ballistics, but it helps if you have a physics or an engineering degree to understand all the math and science involved. :) I don't, so I find myself losing interest pretty quickly.



All that can be said is that it's likely that this ammo would shoot somewhat slower from this gun at a lower altitude.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:09 AM   #6
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

Howdy Mr. Erich,



While I do agree totally with you sir that each firearm tends to be unique to itself, it does appear that Speer has another winner with this load. In my chosen 9mm loads, I tend to prefer the 124-125 gr options over the heavier 147gr bullets. Simply because a little more MV is possible with the lighter ones.



Among LEAs both the standard Speer GDs and the short barrel GDs do have a strong reputation for street performance. It would be nice if more actual information was available, but sometimes the street rep is about all we ever really hear about. Just the way it is I reckon, given the issues involved with law enforcement shootings.



I will mention this load to my shooting buddy (and former office mate) Mr. John, as he often carries his Kahr K9 as his back up pistol. He may well want to get some and shoot them through my chornograph. If so I will add some more results for folks here. Although my elevation would be more akin to yours, rather than much closer to sea level. But I also agree with you that more chornograph results are simply a good thing.



I recently got some of the Speer SB GD loads in .38spc +P that I want to test. I should also try to get my hands on some of the SB .40S&W rounds too, as they would probably perform a bit better than the standard GDs in my Kahr K40.



Thanks for posting this one Mr. Erich, and I agree, it would certainly appear to be a good carry round for your platform.



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Old 12-12-2008, 01:02 PM   #7
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

Thank you, sir! I have to say that I was more than a little skeptical about these "short barrel" loads that Speer put out, especially since the first one (the .38 Spl +P 135-gr load) was hyped online for a full year before anyone was ever able to buy and fire a round. ::) That said, the handloader in me feels that making rounds specifically designed to perform well out of a short-ish barrel was a really good idea. Such rounds certainly fill a need in what appears to be an ever-growing market niche. So, I'm just thrilled to see that the round actually appears to perform as advertised. I've yet to hear an informed source say anything negative about a Gold Dot bullet of any type, and the velocities this round delivers in my RAMI's 3" barrel (and in my friend's 3.2" PPS' barrel) are velocities that one would be delighted to get with a similar weight bullet from a full-length barrel.



Good show, Speer!
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:26 PM   #8
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

Howdy Mr. Erich,



I could certainly be wrong on this one, but as I understand things, the original concept for a short barrel GD load came from NYPD. They requested Speer to develop a GD load that would reliably expand from the shorter barreled revolvers many of their personnel carried both on and off duty. Everything I have heard is that NYPD was very impressed with how this round has performed for them.



So I think Speer realized that the potential for doing much the same certainly existed in other calibers, especially where there were smaller models being offered for both LE and civilian carry choices. So I agree, kudos to Speer for seeing the need and responding to it. I am looking forward to getting some more of the SB GD in other calibers and then doing some testing with them.



Let's hope that other manufacturers will realize the need as Speer has, and will begin to produce rounds specifically designed for shorter barreled weapons too.



It would really be interesting to see how these rounds actually perform in say a wetpack test. Hopefully someone who has the ability to do wetpacks will devote one test strictly to comparing say the SB GD loads with the related standard GD loads in various calibers. I would find that real world testing valuable.



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Old 12-28-2008, 02:37 PM   #9
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

Dunno what you're looking for in your .38 Special load, Twoguns, but my ancient memory banks recall that my employer's standard .38 Special load from 1978 to 1991 was a 125 grain +P+ load, made intially by Winchester and later by Federal. It chronographed 1,258 fps from a four inch revolver barrel, and the Department initially had to sign its life away in liability waivers before the factory would part with any of it, so I would imagine it was miles over SAAMI specs for the caliber at that time. I was told the chamber pressures at the time, but can only recall the impression that it was only a couple of thousand pounds under the low end .357 pressures. The load was only used in stainless guns and they moved mountains to keep it out of alloy and older steel revolvers, especially the small frame guns. I pass this on only to give you another measuring guidepost......I realize you're not testing a +P+ load.



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WUPS, I may have misplaced this post...it may be better suited in http://handgunsandammo.proboards36.c...y&thread=7504. Apologies and feel free to move it if it is out of place here. JP
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Old 12-29-2008, 01:27 AM   #10
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Speer 9x19 124-grain +P Gold Dot short barrel load

Howdy Mr. Jerry,



Thanks for the memories of sorts sir, lol. We also had the "infamous" Treasury load, a 110 gr JHP loaded to +P+ long before that was fully understood. It was literally restricted to personnel within the four agencies making up Treasury LEA at that point in time - USSS, BATF, USCS, and IRS. We were only permitted to use them in either K or L framed Smiths - no J frames period.



Actually I have a couple of 3" tubed K frames that I am looking for a reliable round I could use as my carry round. Given my medical issues, I really don't see much need to carry full house magnums, and I really preferred the Speer 140 JHP .357 mag when I carried those as duty weapons.



So in many respects I see the .38spc 135 SBGD as a very likely replacement round for me. I just need to check out some through my chronograph and get a feel for how they will hit re POA-POI, as one is a 3" 65 with fixed sights.



I am still waiting to hear a negative comment on the SBGD ammo, but so far it remains very positive. So maybe it is time for me to take a hard look at it for my Smith revolvers, and consider the .40 SBGD for use in my K40 Kahr. I do like the concept of adapting a bullet to expand reliably at lower velocities expected from shorter barrels.



I already have some of the standard .40 GD and while not painful to shoot in the K-40, you can tell it would develop some authority downrange too. So maybe the SB load would be a bit easier to shoot quickly with tighter groups. I favor any effective round that I can get tight groups with during rapid fire.



But thanks for reminding me about those "specialized" loads that some folks got issued. They even packaged our load in a unique box so it would be readily recognized if found on the shelves of gun stores. There was no valid explanation a gun store could give for how they obtained it legally, as they could not. I was only sold via purchase orders to primary firearms instructors working for one of those 4 Treasury agencies.



Once I have been able to test some of the SBGD loads in various calibers, I will post my result in the appropriate threads.



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